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WSJ PAGE ONE Life and Death As Inmates Age, A Prison Carpenter Builds More Coffins The rise of lengthy, mandatory sentences and a nationwide tough-on-crime attitude has resulted in a booming prison population — 2.1 million last June, compared with 501,886 in 1980 —

This would all be great if we didn’t have a half million wetback criminals coming to take their place in the population every few months.

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This is quite a moving article.  It is sad to think of all those lonely, wasted lives.

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At Angola, 97% of inmates now die in prison, up from about 80% a decade ago. "I’ll probably end up making my own," he says.

Angola is not typical, and the vast majority of inmates are released eventually, not dead. Prison space is so scarce that most prisons are releasing unhealthy inmates as soon as they become unhealthy; because they don’t want to pay the elevated health care costs of senior inmates.

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This is quite a moving article.  It is sad to think of all those lonely, wasted lives.

   That’ll teach ‘em not to smoke marijuana.

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Angola got a long way to catch up to the USA as the "prison capital of the world".  The US long ago passed Russia and China in per-capita incarcerees.

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WSJ PAGE ONE Life and Death As Inmates Age, A Prison Carpenter Builds More Coffins Funerals Gain in Importance At Penitentiary Few Leave; Rise of Longer Sentences Mr. Bone Mans the Hearse By GARY FIELDS Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL May 18, 2005; Page A1 TUNICA, La. — At the Angola state penitentiary here, Richard Leggett, a yellow pencil tucked behind his right ear, put the molding on his latest creation: a 7-foot coffin. He worked with some urgency, sewing and stapling the white bedding inside. He always likes to keep three coffins in stock, so he doesn’t run out. Half a mile away, one of his other hand-made caskets — birch and pine, stained a rich brown hue — was being laid into the ground at the prison cemetery. It held the body of a 57-year-old fellow inmate, imprisoned since the 1970s for killing a 13-year-old girl. As the prison’s coffin maker, Mr. Leggett, 53 years old, has been busy. The prison has needed one or two of his caskets in each of the last five weeks. At Angola, 97% of inmates now die in prison, up from about 80% a decade ago. "I’ll probably end up making my own," he says. The rise of lengthy, mandatory sentences and a nationwide tough-on-crime attitude has resulted in a booming prison population — 2.1 million last June, compared with 501,886 in 1980 — and an aging one. The number of inmates dying from natural causes rose to 2,700 in 2002 from 799 in 1982, according to the U.S. Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics. Inmates often arrive at prison in the physical condition of someone 10 years to 15 years older because of the lack of health care they received while free, according to the American Correctional Association, a group of corrections officials. Chronic illnesses such as HIV, hepatitis and asthma are prevalent among prisoners, as are histories of alcohol and drug abuse, making them more likely to die earlier than normal. Texas, which had 43 burials in 1975, is burying about 100 prisoners a year now, at a cost of $1,500 each. Oregon has contracted with local funeral homes to cremate unclaimed deceased inmates and store the ashes. The cost is about $432 per cremation. At Angola, funerals are elaborate affairs, with hand-made coffins pulled to graves by horse-drawn carriages, in rites conducted almost entirely by inmates. Warden Burl Cain believes such services are a stabilizing influence, keeping inmates busy and offering purpose to those who have no hope of leaving alive. "A man wants to be productive, even the ones here," he says. Once known as the bloodiest prison in America, inmates at Angola used to fashion weapons from innocuous items — such as toothbrushes and towels — to maim and kill. A murder a month was considered normal. Today, though, it isn’t the Angola of "Dead Man Walking" and "Monster’s Ball," two movies filmed here. Now, it’s an older Angola, and death often comes from natural causes. Last year, 29 inmates at Angola died of natural causes, up from six in 1984, even though the population has stayed the same at about 5,100. This year, 23 have died already, none from inmate-on-inmate violence. The prison lost its oldest inmate earlier this year, a 95-year-old, who had been in and out of prison since Harry Truman was president. During the last decade, there have been only four prison murders at Angola. Some inmates attribute that to what they call "criminal menopause" — meaning when they hit a certain age, their violent natures dissipate. They also credit the warden, a former teacher who says he came to corrections because high-school students were too unruly. To deal with its aging population, over 500 inmates at Angola have been trained to perform CPR and there is a hospice here for those who are in the final stages of terminal illnesses. And Warden Cain has created a funeral industry, of which Mr. Leggett’s coffin-making is a primary piece. Other inmates make shrouds for the caskets and plan services. Angola gets society’s most serious offenders — child molesters, murderers and rapists. Two years ago, the prison stopped accepting anyone with a sentence of less than 50 years, meaning few will ever leave. "A couple of decades after I got here, people actually got out. We used to have call-out every workday where three or four would be called out; they were going home," says Douglas Dennis, 69, who arrived here in 1957 and is serving a double life sentence for killing two prisoners in fights. He is now a writer for the Angolite, an award-winning prison publication whose death listings are scoured by the inmates. Now, "they might as well have welded the doors shut." About half of those of who die at Angola are buried on the prison’s grounds because inmates have lost touch with their families and have no one to collect the remains. "Even your bones don’t get a second chance to get out," says Mr. Dennis, the prison’s unofficial historian. The Mississippi River forms three of the institution’s four borders and the Tunica Hills, an area of snakes, trees and wild animals, is the fourth. Established as a prison in 1880, Angola gets its name from the plantation that preceded it, which in turn was named for the area of Africa where most of its slaves had come from. Except for the occasional vehicle, there is no mechanical noise. During the day, groups of inmates carrying hoes, shovels and sling blades head to fields where they grow four million pounds of produce, ranging from corn to wheat, each year. At night, only lights from the various cell blocks on the 18,000-acre compound dot the darkness. The prison grounds are larger than the island of Manhattan. When there are violent incidents and attempted escapes, they are dealt with swiftly. Offenders are put into Cellblock J, where they remain in 6-by-8 cells, 23 hours a day, for a minimum of six months. They aren’t allowed to make telephone calls, smoke or have visitors. At Angola, "life means life," says Mr. Cain, 62, the short, white-haired warden, who occasionally rides his Harley-Davidson down the 20-mile asphalt highway that dead-ends at the prison’s gates. He has mixed feelings about his elderly inmates. "Prison shouldn’t be a place for dying old men," he says. "It should be a place for predators." For years, inmates were buried in flimsy coffins that resembled shipping crates, each costing anywhere from $650 to $900. In June 1995, the prison was preparing to bury Joseph Siegel, a 69-year-old prisoner who had been convicted in 1971 for burglary and murdering a state senator. Inmate mourners join a fellow prisoner’s funeral procession. As the inmates lifted Mr. Siegel’s coffin to lay into the freshly dug grave, his body fell through the bottom of the casket. They carefully laid the coffin over the body and started to shovel dirt over the coffin. The lid then caved in. Warden Cain, then only in his first year on the job, was disgusted. "Once a man dies, his sentence is complete and there should be dignity in the passing," he says. He asked some inmates, including Eugene Redwine, who had committed the murder with Mr. Siegel and was known for his carpentry skills, whether they could build a coffin. The inmates agreed, making a coffin in two weeks at a cost of $250, considerably less than the prison had been paying — and a much higher quality. Mr. Leggett, now the principal coffin maker here, has been to only one funeral in his 34 years at Angola. It was after the March 2003 death of his mentor and predecessor, Mr. Redwine. He sat on the front row in the chapel inside the hospice, the area reserved for family. There was no one else there for the 74-year-old man. Mr. Leggett says his mentor taught him the importance of doing his job well. "He said, ‘Give it your best effort. If you’re going to do something, give it your best.’ He instilled that in me." The two met after Mr. Leggett, who came to prison as a teenager, had been inside a two-man cell for six years. Mr. Redwine, nearly twice Mr. Leggett’s age, started teaching the younger inmate about carpentry. Mr. Leggett took to it and began reading everything he could. The two became skilled carpenters, making furniture, rocking chairs, and toys, most of which went to the staff. Now there’s little that Mr. Leggett can’t make. All he needs is a picture or a drawing. Cabinets, dressers, and potato bins are all in his repertoire. Most items are used at the prison, and a few are sold. He earns the prison’s top wage — 20 cents an hour — giving him some spending money for incidentals. He enjoys admiring his finished products, especially the coffins. "If you’d seen what they were buried in before, you’d understand," he says. Nicknamed "Grasshopper" in his early days here because he was skinny with long limbs, he killed a man and a woman on May 29, 1971, near Amite, La., as he robbed their store. When asked how he remembers the exact date, he spits tobacco juice on the ground, and replies: "Why would I remember it? That’s something that weighs on your mind. I have a lot of regrets." Today, Mr. Leggett is a heavyset man with thick glasses, a bad heart valve and diabetes. Because he’s an inmate trustee — which means he’s a low risk for behavior violations — he isn’t under constant guard and lives with the other trustees in a cellblock reserved for them. A loner, Mr. Leggett spends most of his time in the carpentry shop, working with two assistants, meticulously going over every detail. "You never can tell," he says, standing near one of the oblong boxes, "when one of them is going to be yours." Mr. Leggett has lost touch with most of his relatives and the one he can locate, his son, is serving 20 years in prison in Texas. "I can’t go see him and he can’t come see me," he says. It takes him a week to produce a coffin, although he once built one on special order for an oversized inmate in two days. He worked 36 hours straight trying to meet the state requirement that inmates who die of natural causes be buried quickly … read more »

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Deeds Thanks for posting this, these real life smoking stories are helpful to us trying to quit. Pehaps your example will lead your mother and step dad to trying to quit oneday. Congrats on your FWD, you got one of the toughest over with. Good luck Paul D Six months, three weeks, three days, 12 hours, 59 minutes and 45 seconds. 10327 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,135.75. Life saved: 5 weeks, 20 hours, 35 minutes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – History: My Step-Dad is going to be 60 in September. Smokes roughly 1.5 packs per day (marlboro lights) and is a heavy drinker on the weekends. Heart disease runs rampant on his side of the family. Many of his aunts and uncles and now even some of his cousins have died from it. His own mother died from the effects of her stroke (heavy smoker as well). So, about a month ago he goes to the doctor for his checkup. The doctor didn’t like the sound of his breathing so he diagnoses him with "smoke in the lungs". Now, he’s a SMOKER!! lol  Anyhow, has anyone heard of this before?? Well, the doctor gives him a sample of this inhaler. It was good for a weeks worth of meds. He goes back to the doctor then and he’s still the same so the doctor gives him a prescription for this inhaler this time. Last Friday he goes to get it filled at the pharmacy to find out AFTER insurance, it would cost him $179.00 for this stuff. He doesn’t buy it. Go figure. It’s to help him breathe better! Carton of smokes x 4 per month = $152.00 (roughly) Meds to BREATHE x 1 per month  = $179.00 $27.00 more per month to live comfortable and breather better When my mom told me that this week, I just thought to myself gee….. Seems to me i would just quit smoking then and call it a day! I blow $27.00 on lunches out each week or a few good steaks for the grill or a pair of shoes But, that all being said (and I just needed to vent), I won’t harp on it, I won’t hassle or scold or shake my finger and say anything negative. He’ll quit when the time is right for him. If ever. Mom is also a smoker, about a pack a day but more on the weekends as well. She does not drink. Her words to me when she initially told me about his first doctor appointment and the "smoke in the lungs" thing was, "so he has his inhaler for the week and he’s really cut back on his smoking". <sigh It’s hard to know that this addiction has him that tight that he would chance losing his own life for it, leaving my mother without the one man in well, not really helping him to make the decision to quit. That their brains are so fogged up with cigarettes that they can’t see what is coming down the road? Those are just my thoughts for the morning. Thank you. — Deeds I’m proud to say that I haven’t had a freakin’ sick stick in: One week, 21 hours, 40 minutes and 9 seconds. 276 cigarettes not smoked, saving $62.23. Life saved: 23 hours, 0 minutes.

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First of all, a big fat CONGRATS on your FWD. I understand what you are saying about your family, my husband still smokes and although he is apparently healthy, he needs to quit before it catches up with him. But I don’t say it, because if he had tried to get me to quit  before I was ready, he would have gotten a big, fat "Kiss my ass!" and I know he would have been right, but I tend to get stubborn sometimes. My thoughts are with you on this. Lisa Three months, one week, four days, 22 hours, 58 minutes and 26 seconds. 2079 cigarettes not smoked, saving $269.14. Life saved: 1 week, 5 hours, 15 minutes.

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It’s hard to know that this addiction has him that tight that he would chance losing his own life for it, leaving my mother without the one man in

That’s what smoking does to people… You have my sympathy…so does your Mom steveb

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It’s hard to know that this addiction has him that tight that he would chance losing his own life for it, leaving my mother without the one man in

I remember reading somewhere earlier in my quit that continually doing something that you know is bad for you is pretty much the definition of addiction.   Last week my cousin who is in his mid-thirties was diagnosed w/emphysema.  He’s a 2-3 pack a day smoker who says he *knows* he can’t quit.  One of my co-workers who is in his sixties was diagnosed with it about a year ago and tried to quit, couldn’t do it and eventually switched to lights which I’m quite sure isn’t going to help.   Anyhow, seeing people go through this  just makes me sad, knowing from experience how hard it is to quit and it makes me very angry with the tobacco industry. Congrats on your first week done Deeds.  It’s a tough road but you just made it through the most hellish part. Five months, three weeks, four days, 5 hours, 30 minutes and 13 seconds. 5286 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,189.27. Life saved: 2 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes. -charm

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A Quit is a personal thing. You have to do it for yourself. It is natural to try and protect those that you love but you are right, they have to do it for themselves and brow beating them will not get you anywhere. Good luck to you and well done on your quit so far. Nearly all of my family have smoked then quit and nearly all have heart disease too so I know where you are coming from and if there was anything I could do to help any of them then I would do that. My mum was the only non-smoker and she died of cancer when she was a few years older then I am now. But at least the life she had was smoke free. Three weeks, five days, 11 hours, 36 minutes and 29 seconds. 529 cigarettes not smoked, saving

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Thanks Debby~ interesting reading! They are a very cute couple I think they are lucky to have each other!

I think so too! Debby

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Thanks Debby~ interesting reading! They are a very cute couple I think they are lucky to have each other!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heavy Mettle Mom Ozzie and Harriet they definitely weren’t. Through the ’80s and early ’90s, she packed the big-haired rocker off to drug and alcohol rehab more than a dozen times. In 1989 she called police after he went on a drinking binge, wrapped his fingers around her throat and tried to strangle her. (She dropped the charges and he spent three months in rehab.) For her part, "I’d max out the credit card to get him mad," she admits. "But we’ve never given up. I shake my head at these people who get married for a few years, then say their careers are pulling them apart. Hey, you get married for life. You make it work." She certainly got Ozzy’s career clicking. He has sold more than 70 million solo albums; Ozzfest, dreamed up by Sharon in 1996, took in $24 million last year alone. (The couple’s estimated fortune: more than $50 million.) Then came The Osbournes — another brainstorm of Sharon’s that ended up on MTV after being rejected by FOX. After its March debut, the look at the loony-but-loving family sparked a media frenzy. As the typically bleepable Ozzy puts it, "I met the President, the Queen. So much f—ing wacky wild s— has happened." Ozzy and Sharon, who plan to renew their vows on her 50th birthday Oct. 9, are trying to view her diagnosis with similar calm. "I’ve always had a plan that I’d get sick before she did, that I’d die before she did. But my plan didn’t work out," says Ozzy. "She’s my soulmate. If anything did happen to her first, I wouldn’t get married again. Sharon and Ozzy, we’re a team." He pauses and adds, "Life has a way of kicking you in the nuts." Sharon insists they can weather the blow. "I always knew how precious and lucky it is to be alive, and now even more so," she says. "I have a million more things I’m going to do. And I’m not going anywhere." — SAMANTHA MILLER — TODD GOLD in Los Angeles — \ \ | /// //     \ \ | /////     \\~ ~////

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Heavy Mettle Mom Ozzie and Harriet they definitely weren’t. Through the ’80s and early ’90s, she packed the big-haired rocker off to drug and alcohol rehab more than a dozen times. In 1989 she called police after he went on a drinking binge, wrapped his fingers around her throat and tried to strangle her. (She dropped the charges and he spent three months in rehab.) For her part, "I’d max out the credit card to get him mad," she admits. "But we’ve never given up. I shake my head at these people who get married for a few years, then say their careers are pulling them apart. Hey, you get married for life. You make it work." She certainly got Ozzy’s career clicking. He has sold more than 70 million solo albums; Ozzfest, dreamed up by Sharon in 1996, took in $24 million last year alone. (The couple’s estimated fortune: more than $50 million.) Then came The Osbournes — another brainstorm of Sharon’s that ended up on MTV after being rejected by FOX. After its March debut, the look at the loony-but-loving family sparked a media frenzy. As the typically bleepable Ozzy puts it, "I met the President, the Queen. So much f—ing wacky wild s— has happened." Ozzy and Sharon, who plan to renew their vows on her 50th birthday Oct. 9, are trying to view her diagnosis with similar calm. "I’ve always had a plan that I’d get sick before she did, that I’d die before she did. But my plan didn’t work out," says Ozzy. "She’s my soulmate. If anything did happen to her first, I wouldn’t get married again. Sharon and Ozzy, we’re a team." He pauses and adds, "Life has a way of kicking you in the nuts." Sharon insists they can weather the blow. "I always knew how precious and lucky it is to be alive, and now even more so," she says. "I have a million more things I’m going to do. And I’m not going anywhere." — SAMANTHA MILLER — TODD GOLD in Los Angeles — \ \ | /// //     \ \ | /////     \\~ ~////

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Glad it all worked out for you Sloopy! Charla

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take a break from the emails.  It does feel good to have companionship with others through email but sometimes we get more than we need and it has a negative impact on our lives and relationships. Without telling a very long story, take that above paragraph to heart, as it can "certainly" have a negative impact, IME. Gladly, things turned out not only good, but great. In the interim, however, it almost destroyed our marriage. Like all else, moderation is the key, AFAIC. You are *certainly* not alone — Sloopy:) PS: You don’t have to respond since you’re cutting back on emails and usenet : ) I won’t read a response

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla Hi Panserino

Careful where you step Chipero. I have feelers out, see a pansy lately? Dont pinch it!!! It’s easy to get hooked on the internet cause you’re interacting with people. Which is interesting and fun. OTOH, time spent on the net isn’t interacting with people in RL. I wish I had a job so I could be out in the world more and on the net less.

I wish it for you as well! Hope we can chat on IM soon.

LOL, Ok soon then. (((Charla)))

Thank you Chip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chiperino

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Hi, Charla, Computers can be so frustrating.

Yes, right after I sent the last replies yesterday I washed my keyboad and I think I plugged it back in before it dried. LOL, got my wish to be mute for some minutes. But yet there’s a whole world opened up to us by using them – friendships we would have never made if not for the computer.

I would miss my friends online and that is to what is adding to the frusteration. It would be great to go for a walk with you. Sometimes I just think to much. Maybe limiting your time could be helpful.  I know how addicting it is – but for me it works. I think a good walk is in store for you…

Thank you, Im going to do the loop today on my blades. smiles, Elise

Big Love, Charla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla — You’ll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck…

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: : but only a mini breakdown. : I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across : the room. : Should have been the computer. : I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, : just got home from work and first check messages, : on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. : Its a beautiful spring day. : Its time for a cool change. : let me think let me think what will I do : I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live : comfortably with a computer. : There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message : wont do. : : 123 cringe : but I need input so Ill send. : Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. : Thanks ahead, : Charla : : I’m addicted to watching sports on TV.  I have wasted plenty of : beautiful days watching TV when I could have been outside enjoying : the weather and getting exercise or visiting family and friends. : : Do you feel bad about it? : I only ask because if its not hurting anyone then its more of how : you feel. : No.  I enjoy watching sports.  I could spend my time more wisely but this is how I relax right now. : : I guess you should try to limit you computer time just like you : limit the amount of calories you eat.  It’s takes will power but : it can be done. : : Its not so much hat I spend a lot of time here at the computer. : I will say I work, socialize, exercie and so forth. : Its just that I put a lot of feeling into relations I have online and : sometimes It seems lonely. That comes with the territory.  It’s not practical for us to regularly see people in RL who we are very good friends with on the internet It’s easier to find people who you can relate to on the internet than in RL with specific newsgroups like ASAP.   If you lived in the Philly area you could see quite a few people  ;-) I guess we all have to find the right balance of internet and RL relationships. : : Take a break from the emails.  It does feel good to have companionship : with others through email but sometimes we get more than we need and it : has a negative impact on our lives and relationships. : : Yes, OK I agree. I do need to take action. : : Just Say No !!! : : LOL : : Tony : : PS: You don’t have to respond since you’re cutting back on emails and : usenet :  ) : : You dont have to read it then. Anxiously waiting for your replay :  ) Tony

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Hi again, Charla! The board left a Big vacant spot on my wall. It could be a metaphor.

Oh dear!! I recall you mentioned this before. Can I read your original work?

Sure. I will prolly be embarrassed when I realize how primitive and "golly gee" my musings about the Internet sounded 12 years ago!  Snail-mail coming atcha. Yes but when a person has internet relations that turn into romance it can really be a double edged sword.

Oof. I can only imagine. But the virtual *friendships* are nice.  :-) I took a nap, gave some ultimatums..

ROFL! Charla, I would love to watch you giving out ultimatums!  :-)   You go, grrrrrl. Hope your feeling better!

Thanks; all better now. No pink eyes for Easter… except on the Easter bunny. Hugs… it will all be good, as Cheryl says. xxxooo Annie Cottontail

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— … : but only a mini breakdown. : I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the : room. : Should have been the computer. <s I know where this is going……

LOl your admitting to madness. : I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, : just got home from work and first check messages, : on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. that send/rec is the apple of my eye : Its a beautiful spring day. : Its time for a cool change. : let me think let me think what will I do I think you and I need more than a cool change, or a "go over" in life like we had when we were kids

Oh No, I fear this, LOL seriously I was always redoing and a few years ago I had a epiphany in that as much as I hid from it I couldn’t redo life. A "go over" sounds better. I dont have to throw away what I’ve got started just maybe uncrinkle and make it better. : I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live : comfortably with a computer. I refuse to I need it. Especially now. <embraces my computer, kisses monitor lovingly and squeezes my harddrive

now your mixing addictions LOL…. anyway you want it, thats the way you need it. I do know what you mean and I have been there and done that. : There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message : wont do. <g I am sorry Charla I have to laugh…….

I wont expand on that then, I need to be able to laugh at myself. : : 123 cringe : but I need input so Ill send. I love your I fish 2 fish red fish blue fish

<Electric compamy— HEY YOU GUYS I can get dramatic. LOL : Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Three years next month, haven’t stopped a few breaks But I have decided to let a few things go on usenet with working and being involved elsewhere…….

Thats what I was worried about, it being hopeless and myself being helpless to change it. Cheryl thank you so much for replying. It is obvious you and I are just at different yard lines on the same playing field. Maybe a break is needed but don’t go long we are just as addicted to you too <S it’s all relative.

I think Ill just keep up with the gallery , the fly’s and the fluffy’s (Lol) for now. Big Hugs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheryl x : Thanks ahead, : Charla : — : You’ll notice that a turtle only makes progress when : it sticks out its neck… : :

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Internet adiction? Who, me?  Let’s see I’ve been online since the 286 was cutting edge.  The OS of choice was DOS and "websites" cantained little but text.  My 2400 modem wasn’t bad for web surfing….. Now, 56K is too slow, a 3 gig hardrive isn’t big enough, and I am just as adicted to the web as ever.   Discovered usenet in 93 and that was the begining of the end. : ) xo, Jess "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear." -Ambrose Redmoon

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla

I’m addicted to watching sports on TV.  I have wasted plenty of beautiful days watching TV when I could have been outside enjoying the weather and getting exercise or visiting family and friends. I guess you should try to limit you computer time just like you limit the amount of calories you eat.  It’s takes will power but it can be done.   Take a break from the emails.  It does feel good to have companionship with others through email but sometimes we get more than we need and it has a negative impact on our lives and relationships. Just Say No !!! Tony PS: You don’t have to respond since you’re cutting back on emails and usenet :  )

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Charla: Hooo, boy, I know what you mean. I hate it when i realize it’s 11:30 pm and I’ve done nothing since my kids went to bed but read ASAP, surf the Web, search eBay for stuff, and trade e-mails. I mean, I love doing those things, but I wish I’d get off the box and go read a book instead!! It’s hopeless.  In 1990 I published a long article about my Internet (then mostly Bitnet) "addiction" called "Confessions of a Network Junkie." To most ppl, the Net was still a novelty back then, but I had already made scads of friendships around the world, some of which became RL relationships. That article is actually referenced in an on-line bibilography of early writings about Internet use:     http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfmgb/3750/bib2.htm    (You can scroll down to the "D’s" and see my author and title reference!) By that time, I’d been using computer networks to message and e-mail ppl since approximately 1982. I kid you not. The only reason I got over my outrage at being switched (as a magazine writer) from my tomato-red IBM selectric typewriter to a damn computer (Memorex terminal and keyboard wired to the Brown U. mainframe) was discovering I could yak with ppl that way.  :-) I was hooked from the start. It’s just a great way to communicate and connect. Well, I hope you are getting outside to enjoy some of the lovely day before it’s over.  Don’t you dare throw the computer across the room; we need you!!!! xxxooo Anne

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Charla: Hooo, boy, I know what you mean.

You and Cheryl both, what good company. I hate it when i realize it’s 11:30 pm and I’ve done nothing since my kids went to bed but read ASAP, surf the Web, search eBay for stuff, and trade e-mails. I mean, I love doing those things, but I wish I’d get off the box and go read a book instead!!

The board left a Big vacant spot on my wall. It could be a metaphor. It’s hopeless.

Then I should be outraged.  In 1990 I published a long article about my Internet (then mostly Bitnet) "addiction" called "Confessions of a Network Junkie." To most ppl, the Net was still a novelty back then, but I had already made scads of friendships around the world, some of which became RL relationships. That article is actually referenced in an on-line bibilography of early writings about Internet use:     http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfmgb/3750/bib2.htm    (You can scroll down to the "D’s" and see my author and title reference!)

I recall you mentioned this before. Can I read your original work? By that time, I’d been using computer networks to message and e-mail ppl since approximately 1982. I kid you not. The only reason I got over my outrage at being switched (as a magazine writer) from my tomato-red IBM selectric typewriter to a damn computer (Memorex terminal and keyboard wired to the Brown U. mainframe) was discovering I could yak with ppl that way.  :-)

LOL. I got a computer only a few years ago. I was hooked from the start. It’s just a great way to communicate and connect.

Yes but when a person has internet relations that turn into romance it can really be a double edged sword. Well, I hope you are getting outside to enjoy some of the lovely day before it’s over.  Don’t you dare throw the computer across the room; we need you!!!!

I took a nap, gave some ultimatums, need to get my taxes done. Thank you Anne for making me feel so not alone. Hope your feeling better! Big Hugs!! Charla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – xxxooo Anne

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Hi, Charla, Computers can be so frustrating.  But yet there’s a whole world opened up to us by using them – friendships we would have never made if not for the computer. Maybe limiting your time could be helpful.  I know how addicting it is – but for me it works. I think a good walk is in store for you… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla — You’ll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck…

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Hi again, Charla! The board left a Big vacant spot on my wall. It could be a metaphor. Oh dear!!

LOL, na I just needed some change. I got everything here moved around, now I can see out a window. I recall you mentioned this before. Can I read your original work? Sure. I will prolly be embarrassed when I realize how primitive and "golly gee" my musings about the Internet sounded 12 years ago!  Snail-mail coming atcha.

Thank you, Im sure I will find much in common with it. Yes but when a person has internet relations that turn into romance it can really be a double edged sword. Oof. I can only imagine. But the virtual *friendships* are nice.  :-)

Yes I agree! I took a nap, gave some ultimatums.. ROFL! Charla, I would love to watch you giving out ultimatums!  :-)   You go, grrrrrl.

LOL They didnt hold up in the light of day. Hope your feeling better! Thanks; all better now. No pink eyes for Easter… except on the Easter bunny.

cute Hugs… it will all be good, as Cheryl says.

I trust that. xxxooo Annie Cottontail

Benjamina Bunny

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I should have your attitude (((Jess)))

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Internet adiction? Who, me?  Let’s see I’ve been online since the 286 was cutting edge.  The OS of choice was DOS and "websites" cantained little but text.  My 2400 modem wasn’t bad for web surfing….. Now, 56K is too slow, a 3 gig hardrive isn’t big enough, and I am just as adicted to the web as ever. Discovered usenet in 93 and that was the begining of the end. : ) xo, Jess "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear." -Ambrose Redmoon

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla I’m addicted to watching sports on TV.  I have wasted plenty of beautiful days watching TV when I could have been outside enjoying the weather and getting exercise or visiting family and friends.

Do you feel bad about it? I only ask because if its not hurting anyone then its more of how you feel. I guess you should try to limit you computer time just like you limit the amount of calories you eat.  It’s takes will power but it can be done.

Its not so much hat I spend a lot of time here at the computer. I will say I work, socialize, exercie and so forth. Its just that I put a lot of feeling into relations I have online and sometimes It seems lonely. Take a break from the emails.  It does feel good to have companionship with others through email but sometimes we get more than we need and it has a negative impact on our lives and relationships.

Yes, OK I agree. I do need to take action. Just Say No !!!

LOL Tony PS: You don’t have to respond since you’re cutting back on emails and

usenet :  ) You dont have to read it then.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla

Hi Panserino It’s easy to get hooked on the internet cause you’re interacting with people. Which is interesting and fun. OTOH, time spent on the net isn’t interacting with people in RL. I wish I had a job so I could be out in the world more and on the net less. Hope we can chat on IM soon. (((Charla))) Chiperino

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– …

: but only a mini breakdown. : I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the : room. : Should have been the computer. <s I know where this is going…… : I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, : just got home from work and first check messages, : on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. that send/rec is the apple of my eye : Its a beautiful spring day. : Its time for a cool change. : let me think let me think what will I do I think you and I need more than a cool change, or a "go over" in life like we had when we were kids : I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live : comfortably with a computer. I refuse to I need it. Especially now. <embraces my computer, kisses monitor lovingly and squeezes my harddrive : There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message : wont do. <g I am sorry Charla I have to laugh……. : : 123 cringe : but I need input so Ill send. I love your I fish 2 fish red fish blue fish : Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Three years next month, haven’t stopped a few breaks But I have decided to let a few things go on usenet with working and being involved elsewhere……. Maybe a break is needed but don’t go long we are just as addicted to you too <S it’s all relative. Cheryl x : Thanks ahead, : Charla : — : You’ll notice that a turtle only makes progress when : it sticks out its neck… : :

Response:

but only a mini breakdown. I took my picture board that sits behind my computer and threw it across the room. Should have been the computer. I was going to go out for a walk but first I check messages, just got home from work and first check messages, on and on it goes where it ends nobody knows. Its a beautiful spring day. Its time for a cool change. let me think let me think what will I do I think its hopeless, I cant imagine ever really being able to live comfortably with a computer. There must be a line one crosses like a alcoholic, just one message wont do. 123 cringe but I need input so Ill send. Please requesting your stories on internet addiction. Thanks ahead, Charla — You’ll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck…

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Question:

A bit like a classroom atmosphere. Cheers, Carrie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/index.html

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<< Eric, my defense of your first amendment rights does have limits, and you just reached them. Fuck you bitch. I reached  my limits with your putting down SSRIs and psych meds a long time ago. Your a fucking idiot Steve and you ARE a member of the anti-psychiatry movement. DO YOU HEAR ME ASSHOLE? YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE ANTIPSYCHIATRY MOVEMENT  IN THE USA!!!!!

Does your jugular vein throb as you write?  I simply shall pose my customary question; what evidence do you have to justify your claim?  I say again, I am a member of no groups, save for the Democratic Party, Mensa, and my block association. You dont like drugs, you dont like ECT, you deny how bad depression can be and keep harping on about "therapy." And you never even had major depression before. Do you know what it feels like to be a clinically depressed person and have to read your SHIT on this NG day after day Steve? Its depressing after already being depressed to read your crap. I wish youd go away asshole…you have not a clue what you are even talking about.

I am disappointed that you still seem to lack the ability to comprehend what you read, Eric. You post stuff on here that trivializes and puts down the depressive.  Your a fucking dufus Steve.

You seem to need to lump yourself in with the entire class of depressives.  Thats false, Eric.  I put down no class of people, good sir.  I have put you down, however, Eric. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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<< A very SSRI like experience, everything they think you don’t need is removed. scientologist…you ho who you are Steve.

Eric, my defense of your first amendment rights does have limits, and you just reached them.

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http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/index.html

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http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/index.html

A very SSRI like experience, everything they think you don’t need is removed.

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Damn Straight– Who wants a homogenized, boring, santized, mind police bulletin board run by a fucking U of C psychiatrist.  What I love about usenet is it’s wild wild west atmosphere. Bring on the trolls and the bipolars.  Amy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/index.html A very SSRI like experience, everything they think you don’t need is removed.

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Damn Straight– Who wants a homogenized, boring, santized, mind police bulletin board run by a fucking U of C psychiatrist.  What I love about usenet is it’s wild wild west atmosphere. Bring on the trolls and the bipolars.  Amy

I have gone there.  Exceedingly cool.  Dr. Bob is an excellent encyclopedist.  I am not sure what his position on benzos is – maybe i will find out. cheers Squiggles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn Straight– Who wants a homogenized, boring, santized, mind police bulletin board run by a fucking U of C psychiatrist.  What I love about usenet is it’s wild wild west atmosphere. Bring on the trolls and the bipolars.  Amy I have gone there.  Exceedingly cool.  Dr. Bob is an excellent encyclopedist.  I am not sure what his position on benzos is – maybe i will find out. cheers Squiggles

Well, i looked – did not find one reference to Ashton; a lot of Med tex gibberish and academic dispute over the definition of addiction; possibly as is the case at ASAP, once you decide you’re anti-benzo w/d problems, then nobody gets a hearing. It doesn’t bother me, as i have said before, these are Everyman’s tranquillizer and since so many have been taking them, including doctors,  they will soon find out from their own experience what it’s about. cheers, Squiggles

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna Hi Anna, I know the pain you feel. It hurt’s me when my son is called a "drug addict" as if that is the whole person. Your son sounds like a wonderful person and you are a wonderful mother (((((hugs))) Lorri

stay away from the heroin. love ya always. Donny Mr. Mensa

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i am new but i too love my son  uncondiionally no one man knows the depths of another mans mind

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Anna, What a beautiful and poignant post!  Your son is VERY lucky to have you has his mother! Thanks for the reminder that we should never generalize ANY group of people.  We should never condescend to anyone, as best we can. And most of all, thank you for the reminder that each person we see in life – be they drug addict, alcoholic, phobic, chronically ill, etc – is someone’s son, brother, father, uncle, daughter, sister, mother, or aunt. Thank you very much, Anna!  (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))) Love, Kkkkkatie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

– "A word to the wise ain’t necessary.  It’s the stupid who need the advice." —Will Rogers Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect!

Dear Anna, What a touching post!! Your son is so happy to have you for his mother. I think it is important to remember that people who have problems with drugs and/or alcohol are still very worthy of love and compassion. They are human beings with feelings, just like all of us….. Jackie ~*~I just want to feel safe in my own skin, I just want to be happy again, I

Response:

Hi Anna Thanks for sharing this. I already replyd by email, I can read all the post again, problem fixed. Love Jeannette Toedeloe! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Response:

Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Response:

Anna…what a moving post.  My heart goes out to you and your son.  May he find a way to be free of his addiction.  You made a very valuable point.  We are all WHOLE people, and just as those of us with anx/pan do not wish to be defined by it and have other things going on in our lives, we should grant the same consideration to others who faces such huge struggles in their lives.  I have a few friends and my mother who are addicted to cigarettes – an addiction I cannot relate to since I never smoked.  I am glad I never started, because I know I would not be able to quit.  But if I start to get a little too smug about myself not smoking, drinking in excess or doing drugs, I only have to take a look at my overeating that has lead to overweight, depression, lack of energy, lack of desire to participate in fun activities because of my weight.  We all have weaknesses, just some are more visible than others. Good luck to you and your son, Anna. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

– Jeannie "On the other hand….you have different fingers." Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Hi Anna, I know the pain you feel. It hurt’s me when my son is called a "drug addict" as if that is the whole person. Your son sounds like a wonderful person and you are a wonderful mother (((((hugs))) Lorri

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When I was in high school there were lots of my friends who smoked alot of weed. At the time we would all just laugh, and say shit like "Stoner, get a job you stoner!" And at that time it was funny. But the really sad part is that we are all much older now, some of us have spouses, and kids, houses, careers, but these guys are still smoking this stuff. After 10 years, this IS their life. Thank you Anna for pointing out that these people have parents who love them, and it is not necisarily their fault that their kids have this problem. And that it really hurts when someone shouts "Junkie!" "Dehuamnizing the victim makes things simpler, it’s like breathing through a respirator it eases the conscience of even the most conscious and calculating violator words can reduce a preson to an object no problem to obliterate" (from some song by The Disposable Heroes of Hip-Hop-racy, I forget which) I hope that your son will be able to get clean one day soon. To be honest, I think that most people who have gone through some sort of addiction and recovery are much better as friends. They tend to have a much more realistic outlook on life and value it more. My wife was an alcoholic when she was 13 to 15. She has been sober now for over 11 years. So, I guess I am just trying to illustrate that there can be a happy ending to this. Andy — "Let the fool persist in his folly so that he may become wise." – Blake – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

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Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Dear Anna, Good luck to your son. I hope he is eventually able to stop using drugs. I worked in the Haight-Ashbury Drug Detox Clinic in San Francisco  California for about 1 year in 1977-1978. I was a drug rehab counselor.  Those addicts were amoung the most miserable people I have seen in my life. They were under the foot of the drug to which they were addicted. I stopped my addiction to alcohol 22 years ago through AA. Love, Chip Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna Hi Anna, I know the pain you feel. It hurt’s me when my son is called a "drug addict" as if that is the whole person. Your son sounds like a wonderful person and you are a wonderful mother (((((hugs))) Lorri

Hya Lorri, I am sorry to hear this. What is your son using ? Does he live at home ? I would really like to talk to you about it, Maybe in private but as I look at your email you have a no spam filter? If you would like to talk about it please mail me Very Ferm Hug     Anna

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya Lorri, I am sorry to hear this. What is your son using ? Does he live at home ? I would really like to talk to you about it, Maybe in private but as I look at your email you have a no spam filter? If you would like to talk about it please mail me Very Ferm Hug     Anna Hi Anna, I would love to talk to you privately about this. You can always email me at ((((((hugs)))))      lorri  Lorri I tried to mail you but it keeps bouncing

Any idea what the trouble would be? I would like to tlak to you in private as well !!!! Anna

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya Lorri, I am sorry to hear this. What is your son using ? Does he live at home ? I would really like to talk to you about it, Maybe in private but as I look at your email you have a no spam filter? If you would like to talk about it please mail me Very Ferm Hug     Anna Hi Anna, I would love to talk to you privately about this. You can always email me at ((((((hugs)))))      lorri  Lorri I tried to mail you but it keeps bouncing Any idea what the trouble would be? I would like to tlak to you in private as well !!!! Anna Maybe I was to quick the third one did not bounce, will you let me know if

you got it. Thanks      Anna

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hya Lorri, I am sorry to hear this. What is your son using ? Does he live at home ? I would really like to talk to you about it, Maybe in private but as I look at your email you have a no spam filter? If you would like to talk about it please mail me Very Ferm Hug     Anna

Hi Anna, I would love to talk to you privately about this. You can always email me at ((((((hugs)))))      lorri

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy  Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Hi Anna, It is good your son respects you. Not all persons with a addiction can be respectful. The drug rules them and they can lash out and hurt and hurt over and over the people that love them most and are least likely to walk away from them. I think this is where a lot of the stereo typing comes from. The persons most likely to be addicts are low income and less educated. This is stastistics and no way tells the whole picture. Your son is a exception to the rule IMO and though most addicts start out as we all do not all are given the same advantages and must there for find other ways to feed the addiction.It doesnt mean to me to automatically write them off but it does tell me to be more leery and watchful around a person who is a known addict. I wish not to be stereo typed because of a Mental disorder But yet I myself am guilty of it in stereo typing Drug users. Its from past history in my experiences. When the drug rules IMO the person can not always be trusted. I do not know your son Anna but what you write about him makes me think he is truly blessed to have you and you him. Please forgive my generalization.I do not know what it is like to have a son nor daughter that is in the grips of a strong agent and must fight it or give into it daily.I do know that my brothers addiction to a controlled substance has effected my Mom greatly in a negative way.She has expressed hatred at times and other times guilt and yet other times she is very proud.He does treat her well mostly but not always.She has shead many tears for him. I pray for you sons health and well being Anna. Charla Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hya all When I was 17 years old I got my only son. He now is 26. Since he is 19 years old he is a heroinaddict. He is on methadon mostly. His usage depends on his moodswings between 2 ml and 10 ml. All these years he was using heroin on the side. Sometimes he wouldn’t do that for months. And sometimes he is in it for months. Thats one side off my son and not the least. But knowing this addiction I can say not all addicts are the same and sometimes it makes me sad to read about "junkies" as if it were a group with all equal charasteristics. My son has a great and weird sense off humor,he can make me laugh till my stomach hurts. He never stole anything from me and despite all the "horrorstories" I can leave him alone in my house. During the time he is on heroin he says so frankly and will not come to my house cause he knows I cannot stand the way he looks than. He is founder off one off the nicest irc chans I know,a very friendly diehard miggielovers chan. All young techies and nerds. I drop in there once in a while and it is great there. Thanks to him and his cyberbuddy Why do I write this? Cause when you ever see a drugaddict dunnot generalize.  It hurts my feelings All drugaddicts have family and they mostly love their child. And all the people who feel they just have to give up there "nasty habbit" ,Icannot even give up smoking wich does nothing for me compared to what heroin does to my son This letter is a hommage to my son whom I love dearly and whom I also respect! With love to you all Anna

Oh Anna, my heart goes out to you now!  Your poor son!  You are very right about not sticking all addicts in the same category.  I wish your son could get Love, Di (kiss on the head for you and your son!)

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Ooooh do I know this topic….another side of it is the friends, girlfriends, family members and so on who TRY to do things with the person and are persecuted as "stoners" also.  My boyfriend in high school was a stoner…no misrepresentation of the word.  I was NOT… I won’t say I never tried it, but I can say it was NOT for me… but I was so much in a co-dependent relationship that I was afraid to leave or he would get worse.  Well I watched his parents morgage their home to send him to rehab, him to come back the same, stayed straight for 63 (I still remember that number oddly) days and then blew it.  Every time I think of it now, I am sad.  Not because I consider him a "junkie"…he is a person, he has serious problems, his drug use increased and crossed over into other, more dangerous drugs, and I know his parents are crushed.  Most of all, not only is he a son, he is a father…to four children (at last count) who will never know the person he is inside because all they will know is the addiction.  He is good to his kids in that he loves them….but he is cheating them out of who he was…and for someone who was around for his personality BEFORE the drugs, I am sad for the whole family. I do know people who got out of that life, and a select few who can still "Party" sometimes, but live their lives without it.  For me, I got out of the whole lifestyle and the only link to it is that exboyfriend who once in a while I just have to make sure he is ok.  We stayed friends, but I couldn’t help him out of where he was.  Thirteen years later, he is still there. Don’t judge people, this is not a person I would chose to be with again because of choices that he made, but at the same time it is a PERSON not a junkie…stoner….or dopehead.  He’s a son, a father, a friend and a human being.  So yeah I take offence to the blanket statements too. When I was in high school there were lots of my friends who smoked alot of weed. At the time we would all just laugh, and say shit like "Stoner, get a job you stoner!" And at that time it was funny. But the really sad part is that we are all much older now, some of us have spouses, and kids, houses, careers, but these guys are still smoking this stuff. After 10 years, this IS their life. Thank you Anna for pointing out that these people have parents who love them, and it is not necisarily their fault that their kids have this problem. And that it really hurts when someone shouts "Junkie!"

YOU….Off my planet~ R

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Question:

You too?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I once went to the weight room and they laughed at how skinny I was, and then a really tough looking girl (she must have weighed 120 lbs.) started slapping me with a towel and it hurt. I was so embarrased I ran out crying while they all laughed.  Oh me, oh dear.  So then I ran 70 miles and then went home and made myself throw up, and then I took some prozac and some lithium and had 3 shots of vodka, and then I divorced my wife, and then I felt better. Skinny little wimp runner Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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the owner! Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Exercise is certainly good for us both mentally and physically. But some people may have had negative experience(s) related to their exercise. If you are one of them please share your story with me. I am writing a book on the ‘darker side’ of sports and exercise and I need your testimony. Examples of negative experiences are: – injury-related mental or psychological hardship – eating or weight problems relating to sport or exercise – anxiety or mood disturbance – panic attacks – exercise addiction  / dependence – mood disturbance during exercise withdrawal periods – burnout and its psychological hardship – social rejection (in the gym or by co-exercisers or by fiends/peers) – family problems (conflicts because of exercise) – losses (any type) due to exercise or sport – any other events / symptoms that were negative psychologically Kindly send a brief description (1-2 paragraphs) of your story to: Dr. Attila Szabo Thank you for your help and apologies from those who are not concerned! Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Me, too.  Exact same thing.  Even drew blood. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to the owner! Jay Exercise is certainly good for us both mentally and physically. But some people may have had negative experience(s) related to their exercise. If you are one of them please share your story with me. I am writing a book on the ‘darker side’ of sports and exercise and I need your testimony. Examples of negative experiences are: – injury-related mental or psychological hardship – eating or weight problems relating to sport or exercise – anxiety or mood disturbance – panic attacks – exercise addiction  / dependence – mood disturbance during exercise withdrawal periods – burnout and its psychological hardship – social rejection (in the gym or by co-exercisers or by fiends/peers) – family problems (conflicts because of exercise) – losses (any type) due to exercise or sport – any other events / symptoms that were negative psychologically Kindly send a brief description (1-2 paragraphs) of your story to: Dr. Attila Szabo Thank you for your help and apologies from those who are not concerned! Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Before you buy.

Response:

I once went to the weight room and they laughed at how skinny I was, and then a really tough looking girl (she must have weighed 120 lbs.) started slapping me with a towel and it hurt. I was so embarrased I ran out crying while they all laughed.  Oh me, oh dear.  So then I ran 70 miles and then went home and made myself throw up, and then I took some prozac and some lithium and had 3 shots of vodka, and then I divorced my wife, and then I felt better. Skinny little wimp runner Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Exercise is certainly good for us both mentally and physically. But some people may have had negative experience(s) related to their exercise. If you are one of them please share your story with me. I am writing a book on the ‘darker side’ of sports and exercise and I need your testimony. Examples of negative experiences are: – injury-related mental or psychological hardship – eating or weight problems relating to sport or exercise – anxiety or mood disturbance – panic attacks – exercise addiction  / dependence – mood disturbance during exercise withdrawal periods – burnout and its psychological hardship – social rejection (in the gym or by co-exercisers or by fiends/peers) – family problems (conflicts because of exercise) – losses (any type) due to exercise or sport – any other events / symptoms that were negative psychologically Kindly send a brief description (1-2 paragraphs) of your story to: Dr. Attila Szabo Thank you for your help and apologies from those who are not concerned! Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

PASI analysis is a widely accepted measure of drug response in psoriasis patients. Fifty-eight percent (58 percent) of the patients who received ABX-IL8 1.0 mg/kg and 3.0 mg/kg, administered once every three weeks for four consecutive doses, achieved a 25 percent improvement, and 21 percent of patients achieved a 50 percent improvement in PASI score. This compared favorably to patients receiving 0.3 mg/kg ABX-IL8 (20 percent of patients achieved a 25 percent improvement and 0 percent a 50 percent improvement) and to patients receiving placebo (0 percent of patients with improvement of 25 percent). BSA and PGA measures and plaque photographs also showed dose dependent improvement.

not bad, but we want more of course … ABX-IL8 is a proprietary fully human monoclonal antibody developed using the company’s XenoMouse technology. ABX-IL8 targets Interleukin-8 ("IL-8"), which is a cytokine that can cause unwanted inflammation by first enabling immune cells, including neutrophils, to migrate to inflammatory sites and

All you Interluekin competitors sound alike, just gimme the high test stuff. Thanks for the research! Happy to be Alive

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Human Antibody Found Promising For Psoriasis Treatment —- —- FREMONT, CA — December 1, 1999 — Abgenix, Inc. reported top level results of its Phase I/II clinical trial with ABX-IL8, a fully human antibody developed with the company’s XenoMouse(TM) technology. Additional details will be presented at the Psoriasis: from Gene to Clinic meeting in London on December 2, 1999. The multi-center, placebo controlled trial involved 45 patients with moderate to severe psoriasis. Abgenix reported that ABX-IL8 was safe and well tolerated at all dose levels tested and that a dose-dependent improvement was seen in multiple measures of disease. These efficacy measures included psoriasis area severity index (PASI), total body surface area (BSA), Physician’s Global Assessment (PGA), and plaque photographs. The company also indicated that it plans to initiate a Phase II clinical trial in psoriasis during the first half of 2000. Other inflammatory disease indications including rheumatoid arthritis continue to be evaluated. PASI analysis is a widely accepted measure of drug response in psoriasis patients. Fifty-eight percent (58 percent) of the patients who received ABX-IL8 1.0 mg/kg and 3.0 mg/kg, administered once every three weeks for four consecutive doses, achieved a 25 percent improvement, and 21 percent of patients achieved a 50 percent improvement in PASI score. This compared favorably to patients receiving 0.3 mg/kg ABX-IL8 (20 percent of patients achieved a 25 percent improvement and 0 percent a 50 percent improvement) and to patients receiving placebo (0 percent of patients with improvement of 25 percent). BSA and PGA measures and plaque photographs also showed dose dependent improvement. "The Phase I/II trial of ABX-IL8 was primarily designed to demonstrate safety so it is a nice surprise to see such encouraging results on efficacy parameters," stated R. Scott Greer, president and CEO of Abgenix. "We will be optimizing the dose and regimen of ABX-IL8 for psoriasis treatment in one or more Phase II trials to begin next year." ABX-IL8 is a proprietary fully human monoclonal antibody developed using the company’s XenoMouse technology. ABX-IL8 targets Interleukin-8 ("IL-8"), which is a cytokine that can cause unwanted inflammation by first enabling immune cells, including neutrophils, to migrate to inflammatory sites and subsequently activating them. There is substantial evidence that IL-8 contributes to a number of inflammatory diseases, including psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, and inflammatory bowel disease. ABX-IL8 is being studied initially in psoriasis because of its potential to intervene at multiple steps in the disease pathology by blocking IL-8. Scientific studies have shown that IL-8 levels can be elevated 150-fold in psoriatic tissue when compared to normal tissue. In addition to contributing to the inflammation process, IL-8 is also a growth factor for skin cells that are proliferating in psoriatic tissue. Finally, IL-8 is a potent angiogenesis factor, so it may be contributing to the ingrowth of blood vessels that nourish psoriatic tissue. Psoriasis is a chronic disease that results in plaques, a thickening and scaling of the skin accompanied by local inflammation. The disease affects approximately four to five million people in the United States and can be debilitating in its most severe form. Approximately 500,000 psoriasis patients suffer from a severe enough form of the disease to require systemic therapy with immune suppressants and ultraviolet phototherapy. The risk of serious adverse side effects associated with these therapies often requires the patients to alternate between various therapeutic modalities as a precautionary measure.

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Question:

I have found soreness in shoulders to frequently caused by a forward stroke with not enough torso rotation. The shoulders really can’t take all the abuse that the trunk, lats etc, can. An exercise I was taught to facilitate torso rotation was to paddle with both arms straight, it will at least give you an idea of what your body should be doing. Hope it clears up Rob

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<<   << Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes. It’s not clear from your post the nature of the shoulder pain.  Does it hurt her in non paddling activities?  Is there certain strokes or movements that are more painful then others? This winter while working on my rolls I developed an impingement in both shoulders.  Although I lift weights, I needed to do specific exercises to strengthen my rotator cuff given to me by my favorite physical therapists.   They really do work, but it does take some time. Good luck. Bennet Wolper

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<<   <snip This winter while working on my rolls I developed an impingement in both shoulders.  Although I lift weights, I needed to do specific exercises to strengthen my rotator cuff given to me by my favorite physical therapists.

Can you share some of those exercises for strengthening a rotator cuff. I’ve got one shoulder which is on its way down that path. pete

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I don’t know anything about her technique, but i can share a few things I learned from my own shoulder damage, which cost me surgery and more than a year out of my boat: Lifting heavy weights is not enough to protect your rotator cuff.  You recruit large muscles if you lift anything but small weights.  I was given a bunch of exercises.  One set involves lifing very small weights (1-3 pounds) with your arm angled forward about 30 degrees.  Another type involves bending your arm 90 degrees at the elbow, holding your arm away from your body with a folded towel, and using elastic straps to rotate in each direction.  These are hard to describe.  She might want to go to a good PT to get trained in a few of these. If her shoulder hurts enough, my guess is that an orthopod would tell her to lay off and take anti-inflammatories for a few weeks.  But I’m not one, so don’t take my word for it. The most common injury, I was told, was mine.  The joint above the tendon gets bruised and swells, pinching the tendon in certain positions.  One sign of that is if the pain is in certain positions, like lifting things out of a closet.  Sometimes they can get it to go away with antiinflammotories or cortisone.  Other times they have to roto-root it out.  I had the latter. good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings-         A friend of mine (a first year paddler) has been complaining lately of sore shoulders. She doesn’t typically sidesurf, hop in holes, or throw many high braces, but does work on her roll quite often.         Originally her shoulder pain was focused on her right side. I suggested to her that the pain may be a result of applying too much downward pressure on the paddle blade when performing a C-to-C roll. She tried letting up on the downwards pressure somewhat, but after another day on the river, she’s still experiencing pain… actually, it’s spread now to both her shoulders.         Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes.         She’s in great shape. She lifts weights, so she has plenty of shoulder muscles to begin with.         Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks! -Marc

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Lifting heavy weights can actually be dangerous to the small muscles that initiate or stabilize rotation. Shoulder injuries among weight lifters are common due to bad techniques that are often seen in most gyms. It is practically impossible for people here to diagnose her problem.  That is why doctors go to 8 years of school, take X-rays and perform physical examinations.  It is dangerous to take exercises described here and apply them immediately.  Exercises that may be appropriate for one injury may be damaging to another.  Slight rotations in the arm may turn a potentially good exercise into a worthless one. My advice is that she goes to see a good sports medicine orthopedist.  He will probably send her to a physical therapist who can lay out a good rehab program and eliminate the bad exercises in her current program.  If she lives in the Washington DC area I can give recommendations for good orthopedists and PTs. There is a good book called "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution".  This book describes how the shoulder works, many injuries common to weight lifters, swimmers and others, exercises to avoid, exercises similar to Dan’s that will strengthen the small initiators, rehab programs to come back from injury and programs to avoid injury in the first place. You can see how the shoulder works and some exercises similar to Dan’s at the following web site http://www.orthop.washington.edu/bonejoint/zrzzzzzz1_1.html I think the book is better than the web site myself though. Good luck Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know anything about her technique, but i can share a few things I learned from my own shoulder damage, which cost me surgery and more than a year out of my boat: Lifting heavy weights is not enough to protect your rotator cuff.  You recruit large muscles if you lift anything but small weights.  I was given a bunch of exercises.  One set involves lifing very small weights (1-3 pounds) with your arm angled forward about 30 degrees.  Another type involves bending your arm 90 degrees at the elbow, holding your arm away from your body with a folded towel, and using elastic straps to rotate in each direction.  These are hard to describe.  She might want to go to a good PT to get trained in a few of these. If her shoulder hurts enough, my guess is that an orthopod would tell her to lay off and take anti-inflammatories for a few weeks.  But I’m not one, so don’t take my word for it. The most common injury, I was told, was mine.  The joint above the tendon gets bruised and swells, pinching the tendon in certain positions.  One sign of that is if the pain is in certain positions, like lifting things out of a closet.  Sometimes they can get it to go away with antiinflammotories or cortisone.  Other times they have to roto-root it out.  I had the latter. good luck Greetings-         A friend of mine (a first year paddler) has been complaining lately of sore shoulders. She doesn’t typically sidesurf, hop in holes, or throw many high braces, but does work on her roll quite often.         Originally her shoulder pain was focused on her right side. I suggested to her that the pain may be a result of applying too much downward pressure on the paddle blade when performing a C-to-C roll. She tried letting up on the downwards pressure somewhat, but after another day on the river, she’s still experiencing pain… actually, it’s spread now to both her shoulders.         Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes.         She’s in great shape. She lifts weights, so she has plenty of shoulder muscles to begin with.         Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks! -Marc

– To reply to this message via email, remove the "NoSpamHere" in my address.

Response:

Definitly get The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution. I got a copy over a year ago from Amazon.com after disllocation my shoulder.  It includes rehab exercises as well as routines for injury prevention. It is a great book.  Even describes exercises that were once popular that have been proven to be detrimental. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress. Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

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Hey! Just wanted to post a big thank you to all of you who responded. I appreciate the information and will pass it on to her. I’ll definately recommend that she get the book… Thanks again! -Marc

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According to Amazon’s web site the book is on back order and will ship in 3-5 weeks.  Maybe you got different information when you actually tried to order it?  I’d like to know since I intend to write a shoulder section for the FAQ. Anyway, I called the publisher and was assured that it is indeed in print and they have no intention of canceling it.  The publisher is Health For Life, a group that caters to weight lifters and dieters mostly.  They have a web site at http://www.healthforlife.com/index.html You can find some information on the book at http://www.healthforlife.com/html/rotcuff.html Their telephone number is 1-800-874-5339 I’d imagine that you would get it faster from the publisher anyway. They also sell something called a "Shoulder Horn" which is essentially a yoke you wear that isolates movement on the rotator cuff muscles.  Its a pricey gadget and comes with a little booklet.  On the back of the booklet is Final Designs Inc, PO Box 260500, Highlands Ranch, CO 80126 USA, (800) 528-9159. Maybe you can get it for less if you buy direct. Gary Has anybody sen this book for sale anywhere? I tried both amazon and Barnes and Nobel.com earlier this year, and was told it was not in print. Still looking and would buy it, if I can find it. There is a good book called "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution".  This book describes how the shoulder works, many injuries common to weight lifters, swimmers and others, exercises to avoid, exercises similar to Dan’s that will strengthen the small initiators, rehab programs to come back from injury and programs to avoid injury in the first place.

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Sometimes they can get it to go away with antiinflammotories or cortisone.  Other times they have to roto-root it out.  I had the latter.

Yeah, I went for surgery too and didn’t regret it.  If you’re a kayaker, and you’ve busted something in your shoulders, it’s better to just fix it.  All the exercises in the world won’t reattach a torn rotator cuff. – Mothra

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Has anybody sen this book for sale anywhere? I tried both amazon and Barnes and Nobel.com earlier this year, and was told it was not in print. Still looking and would buy it, if I can find it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There is a good book called "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution".  This book describes how the shoulder works, many injuries common to weight lifters, swimmers and others, exercises to avoid, exercises similar to Dan’s that will strengthen the small initiators, rehab programs to come back from injury and programs to avoid injury in the first place.

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I’ve been paddling for around 20 years, somewhere along the line I discovered that wearing gloves and liners while paddling is sort of like wearing shoes and socks while running – they absorb some shock, reduce wear and tear on the shoulders, and prevent blisters.  I  never paddle without them, and rarely have shoulder pain.  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings-    A friend of mine (a first year paddler) has been complaining lately of sore shoulders. She doesn’t typically sidesurf, hop in holes, or throw many high braces, but does work on her roll quite often.    Originally her shoulder pain was focused on her right side. I suggested to her that the pain may be a result of applying too much downward pressure on the paddle blade when performing a C-to-C roll. She tried letting up on the downwards pressure somewhat, but after another day on the river, she’s still experiencing pain… actually, it’s spread now to both her shoulders.    Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes.    She’s in great shape. She lifts weights, so she has plenty of shoulder muscles to begin with.    Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks! -Marc

She should ask her doctor about bursitis. I’ve had it for years, it is actually helped by paddling, but sometimes you just gotta paddle through the pain.

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I agree, but when you need a rotator cuff decompression (which I did), you lose a little something.  The joint is not as stable afterwards because of the stuff they remove.  (I have a hazy memory of the anatomy, but I think they remove the joint between the collar bone and shoulder blade, as well as some of the bone.)  I was told that only people who do things like wrestling (not me!) notice this decrease in stability, but I think whitewater was not on their list.  I notice it a little.  If I roll wrong (if I rely too much on my paddle instead of my hips), I feel it, and I have to be careful to watch how I brace.  But still, all in all, it was the right decision–I can happily paddle now, and I had pain taking my shirt off before. The best thing to do, I’m convinced, is to protect your shoulders in advance.  But even with that, fluke accidents (like mine) happen. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes they can get it to go away with antiinflammotories or cortisone.  Other times they have to roto-root it out.  I had the latter. Yeah, I went for surgery too and didn’t regret it.  If you’re a kayaker, and you’ve busted something in your shoulders, it’s better to just fix it.  All the exercises in the world won’t reattach a torn rotator cuff. – Mothra

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I agree with Dan.  Go out and buy some tubing.  Standing forward pull down to her waist with a straight arm.  Do the same backwards pulling from the hip up with a straight arm.  Also, turn sideways with her elbow at hip and hand forward.  Move hand to the outside of body without moving her elbow. Turn around and do the same pulling into the body.  Do the other exercises Dan said about pulling out with the elbow.  Two more exercises are, holding 3 to 5 pound weights down next to her sides and lifting or rolling her shoulders.  The last is weird; lay on her back with these weights held up towards the ceiling and act like she’s punching the ceiling with her shoulders only. These methods are used to strengthen the muscles in the rotator cuff and around the shoulder.  These are also the exercises my physical therapist gave for me to do for a torn muscle in my rotator cuff.  They may not be exactly the exercises the PT would prescribe for her but they can’t hurt either.  Even though I’m to use these for my hurt shoulder, I was told to go ahead and do them on both shoulders so I strengthen the right as well as the left.  Good luck! Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know anything about her technique, but i can share a few things I learned from my own shoulder damage, which cost me surgery and more than a year out of my boat: Lifting heavy weights is not enough to protect your rotator cuff.  You recruit large muscles if you lift anything but small weights.  I was given a bunch of exercises.  One set involves lifing very small weights (1-3 pounds) with your arm angled forward about 30 degrees.  Another type involves bending your arm 90 degrees at the elbow, holding your arm away from your body with a folded towel, and using elastic straps to rotate in each direction.  These are hard to describe.  She might want to go to a good PT to get trained in a few of these. If her shoulder hurts enough, my guess is that an orthopod would tell her to lay off and take anti-inflammatories for a few weeks.  But I’m not one, so don’t take my word for it. The most common injury, I was told, was mine.  The joint above the tendon gets bruised and swells, pinching the tendon in certain positions.  One sign of that is if the pain is in certain positions, like lifting things out of a closet.  Sometimes they can get it to go away with antiinflammotories or cortisone.  Other times they have to roto-root it out.  I had the latter. good luck Greetings-         A friend of mine (a first year paddler) has been complaining lately of sore shoulders. She doesn’t typically sidesurf, hop in holes, or throw many high braces, but does work on her roll quite often.         Originally her shoulder pain was focused on her right side. I suggested to her that the pain may be a result of applying too much downward pressure on the paddle blade when performing a C-to-C roll. She tried letting up on the downwards pressure somewhat, but after another day on the river, she’s still experiencing pain… actually, it’s spread now to both her shoulders.         Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes.         She’s in great shape. She lifts weights, so she has plenty of shoulder muscles to begin with.         Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks! -Marc

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 I forgot to add that this book will be practically impossible to find at your local book store but can be found at Amazon.com. Gary There is a good book called "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution".  This book describes how the shoulder works, many injuries common to weight lifters, swimmers and others, exercises to avoid, exercises similar to Dan’s that will strengthen the small initiators, rehab programs to come back from injury and programs to avoid injury in the first place.

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There is a good book called "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution".

This is a very good book.  My PT says my use of this book probably did my shoulder a great deal of good.  Even though I had torn the glenoid labrum from a fall hat eventually needed surgery, I was able to use it without pain or problems for six years because of these exercises. You can get Thera-Bands at the local hospital supply store.  These are very good for shoulder rehab and preventative exercises. Bob

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Greetings-         A friend of mine (a first year paddler) has been complaining lately of sore shoulders. She doesn’t typically sidesurf, hop in holes, or throw many high braces, but does work on her roll quite often.         Originally her shoulder pain was focused on her right side. I suggested to her that the pain may be a result of applying too much downward pressure on the paddle blade when performing a C-to-C roll. She tried letting up on the downwards pressure somewhat, but after another day on the river, she’s still experiencing pain… actually, it’s spread now to both her shoulders.         Any ideas on flaws in her technique which may be causing this? Another thought was that it might be resulting from simply musceling forward strokes, rather than using a combination of arm and torso muscles to make forward strokes.         She’s in great shape. She lifts weights, so she has plenty of shoulder muscles to begin with.         Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks! -Marc

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Question:

Gary, Jesus is a astrain of hoaxes, bandit of homages & a robber of affection. Why talk to someone who as been dead for 2000 years? Centuries have wept awaiting the fugitive & mute god you speak of yet he has not appeared in thy glory & continues to sleep. The "Creater" is man who is just another animal & the most vicious one too because of his intellectual & divine spiritual developement. You must have scorn for me &  you must release your animosity? What a better way than with prayer? What a simperingly polite way of saying "I hate your guts,". Praying for me is noting more than bargin basement anger of a decidedly shoddy & inferior quality. Long Live Ozzy & Hail Lucifer!

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As far as Darwinism, I had a Scientist tell me one time that the sun burns a couple of billion tons of energy mass every couple of minutes.

A bad scientist I guess. Any decent astronomer can tell you that stars don’t burn energy at a constant rate. And what does this have to do with Darwin?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      If that be the case, do you realize how big the sun would have had to be millions of years ago? Believe me my friend there is a Creator who sustains all live, including ours. I pray that you find that truth as I did my friend. God bless you!!! There is no Heaven of glory bright. Here & now is our day of joy. God is just a man made concept & the balance factor in spells. Jesus Christ was nothing but pallid incompetence hanging on a tree. Ozzy will live forever in our minds & sinews after his flesh is gone though.   Man is just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours’, who, because of his "divine spiritual & intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all. People try to reinforce things like Darwin’s theory because it just so happens to be truth.

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I don’t know what this all have to do about Black Sabbath. Maybe their is a kind of prehistoric, primitive touch in their music that makes us think about our origins, like the sincerity in their dark sounds makes us religious, or wonder about religion (in any form).

Sorry I meant: I don’t know what this all has to do with Black Sabbath. And yes I know already: it’s not their is, but there is… M.

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     Its talk like that my brother that all the more furthers my convictions of a needed savior. That Savior my dear friend is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth.      Ozzy rocks my butt off, but when its all said and done, Jesus is the man I talk to at the end. As far as Darwinism, I had a Scientist tell me one time that the sun burns a couple of billion tons of energy mass every couple of minutes.      If that be the case, do you realize how big the sun would have had to be millions of years ago? Believe me my friend there is a Creator who sustains all live, including ours. I pray that you find that truth as I did my friend. God bless you!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no Heaven of glory bright. Here & now is our day of joy. God is just a man made concept & the balance factor in spells. Jesus Christ was nothing but pallid incompetence hanging on a tree. Ozzy will live forever in our minds & sinews after his flesh is gone though.   Man is just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours’, who, because of his "divine spiritual & intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all. People try to reinforce things like Darwin’s theory because it just so happens to be truth.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip But Jason, do you also think that Ozzy is the long awaited Anti-Christ? long awaited by whom? Ozzy is the singer in a rock band, not the fulfillment of a prophecy in a book of fairy tales. Jonathan, man you are so wise. You are my Guru;-) Thanks, I know that was meant as a compliment with absolutely no trace of sarcasm:) I do relationship counselling on the side too. If you and Raddion need any advice just let me know;)

Jonathan, I am never sarcastic, that’s not in my nature…And a Cyberspace counsellor is always welcome – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Evolution. AFAIK current evolution theory doesn’t claim we are descended from Neanderthals any more than we are descended from apes. That’s a popular misconception used by creationists and fundamentalists to discredit evolution theory. We have a common ancestor, neanderthals died out, we survived, that’s how it works. There are many different theories. Yes, we alll seem to descend from Lucy. I didn’t suggest we descend from the Neanderthals. I know, I just assumed that is what you meant. Your timeframe seemed to suggest that the ‘human gods’ arrived around the neanderthal/homo sapiens crossover. I didn’t get the point otherwise.

I see. Maybe there were different invasions of Human "gods", starting around the time of Homo Erectus until the time the Neanderthals arrived (or even "we" saw the light of day). Originally they maybe tried to create the ideal Slave, not the ideal Human…Well I know that Von D