Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Thanks and well said Harv
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sorry Bill but I’d say you were wrong you seem to feel the the fact of illegality some how makes this a better world and I’m pretty darn sure that this is not true in spite of how the Federal govt & other branches look at it regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. True, but the fact that rich conservatives now not only OWN America but RULE it as well, and of course they think pain is good for you, which is why they take all our money. <G
uh huh like the guy who owns cnn and gives a billion to support the left and the gov robs you of your money and your childrens children but this is not the place for that discussion and why do it with people that havent figured out the mj makes our young people say huh alot while the left forgets to teach our childred to read. Sorry to the group– I will not respond or discuss this again. Harv
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Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people BULL SHIT! I had a friend who was as addicted to Marijuana as any addict of anyother addictive substance!. He was so hooked and used so much he suffered depression (which is not an unusual side effect of pot). Marijuana is bad news for you brain! I do, however think it’s possible medical benifits should be investigated and, if it is infact benifitial, to be made avalible by prescription, under the strictest narcotic guidelines.
I agree with this. When regular users consistently make comments like "I’m not Addicted…I just can’t totally relax without smoking up…" I am skeptical! BTW, the thread was started looking for a reference for using marijuana isolates for pain management. Look in the front few pages of the Nov. 10, 1997 issue of Time magazine and you’ll find it. Apparently, the active ingredient in MJ, delta-9-THC may be an effective reliever of arthritis and some other localized types of pain. Not smoked, however, it is applied topically or through injection. Steve
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"zzub,zzub. MIAAAAAAAAAOW. Crunch….munch." I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid
you wish to tell me that being driven by someone in an about-to-pass-out sleepy relaxed state is not as dangerous as someone who has consumed alcohol. Ho, ho, ho.
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Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
Hi Harv Why do young people who do not use it at all say "HUH"? George
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That has been my experience, too. People that are high/drunk/whatever, have trouble puting their thoughts together. Back in the "bad old days"; the early ’70s, I recorded a couple of get-togethers that I had. We all thought we were real witty and profound, but we were unhappy because we could never remember all the brilliant stuff we said the next day. So, we recorded it. I imagine most of you can guess, we sounded like a bunch of giggling idiotsthe next day when we were not high. An interesting side light to this thread is, I haven’t smoked a joint in years, but this thread has me thinking, "hmmm, maybe that wouldn’t be a bad idea". Now if just knew where some was. . . —- The Skipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, it’s been my experience that most intoxicated people say those phrases, regardless of what intoxicant they are using, beer, wine, dope, speed, etc. –Rich
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
Actually, it’s been my experience that most intoxicated people say those phrases, regardless of what intoxicant they are using, beer, wine, dope, speed, etc. –Rich
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ?? No, but I want one! George
I second that emotion……. –Rich
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Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
In my experience many young people who do not use "it" say the same thing maybe they are deaf form some of the music , or just maybe, they don’t want to listen to older people, no matter what the state of their pharmacology is in ken
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ??
No, but I want one! George
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Hi Frank I would tend to agree with you , although it’s role in rx of arthritis is still open to ? rgards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
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Hi George very well put , I couldn’t agree with you more I appreciate your support in dealing with Bill , he doesn’t seem to like me very much ( and here I’m such a nice guy) regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Yes, but there are not narcotic task forces set up to arrest Xanax distributors. It is an addictive, psychoactive drug. It is legal to prescribe. Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! You may assert that it is a "wrong" decision to take certain substances. Too much fat in the diet can kill, if slowly. Too many antihistamines can impair judgment and cause fatal car accidents. But you are correct that two wrongs don’t make a right. Throwing someone in jail because they abuse substances has not and will not solve the problems. It merely inflames and exacerbates them. I’m not suggesting heroin and cocaine, etc. be available at the local bar or that the Nods brand of heroin should be advertised in TV Guide. I’m not sure what system might be best. But face, those drugs are every bit as much "here to stay" as alcohol and cigarettes. And it’s only getting worse. Putting people in jail for dubious choices has solved absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
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What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble!
Yes, but there are not narcotic task forces set up to arrest Xanax distributors. It is an addictive, psychoactive drug. It is legal to prescribe. Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others!
You may assert that it is a "wrong" decision to take certain substances. Too much fat in the diet can kill, if slowly. Too many antihistamines can impair judgment and cause fatal car accidents. But you are correct that two wrongs don’t make a right. Throwing someone in jail because they abuse substances has not and will not solve the problems. It merely inflames and exacerbates them. I’m not suggesting heroin and cocaine, etc. be available at the local bar or that the Nods brand of heroin should be advertised in TV Guide. I’m not sure what system might be best. But face, those drugs are every bit as much "here to stay" as alcohol and cigarettes. And it’s only getting worse. Putting people in jail for dubious choices has solved absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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Well spoken George I agree 100% might I suggest the Libertarian Party an a rational option to the two present ruling parties that seem to want to jail more Americans for nonviolent acts to "keep us safe" regards ken merriman md
Thanks Ken. I appreciate the comment. Actually, I have some fundamental differences with the Libertarian party. I believe some of their stances and platforms make a great deal of sense. Others I disagree with completely. Of course, I ain’t exactly too thrilled with the Democrats, Republicans, Right-to-Lifers, Conservatives, Communists or Socialists, either! George M. Carter
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That was the theory with the Arizona law. It legalized allowed all drugs to be prescribed by doctors and de-crimanalized simple possession. It turned what is now a legal problem into what it should be, a health problem. The amount of police man-hours an jail and penal space it would open up is incredible. the cops and prosecuters don’t like it because it gets rid of all the easy busts and prosecutions, so they have to go after "real" crimnals instead. The other thing I liked about this law is that it would take a lot of the money/power away from the gangbangers. They’d have to go back to washing cars for a living. Let’s face it, in a free market situation, the Crips just couldn”t compete with Mirck. —— The Skipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, snip Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. snip George M. Carter
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Free people should be able to make there own choice as to what they put into their bodies. This is a matter of personal freedom, live and let live. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ?? — The best things in life are free!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply
What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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Well spoken George I agree 100% might I suggest the Libertarian Party an a rational option to the two present ruling parties that seem to want to jail more Americans for nonviolent acts to "keep us safe" regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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Hi, all– Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Thanks very much. Please email me. Katherine Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work . Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever. Harv
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Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference?
Hmmm. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s being studied, but *anything* can be studied. And who knows, maybe there’s something to it – not that it’ll ever make any difference for me while I’m living in a state like Indiana. Our local legislature here isn’t terribly progressive when it comes to stuff like that, and since federal authorities have been going after doctors who prescribe other pain medications as well I’m not sure the current political climate bodes well for chronic pain sufferers anywhere in the US. Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work .
Hmmm. My understanding was that with cancer patients MJ was prescribed to help cope with the inevitable nausea that results from chemotherapy. From my own experience I’d rate MJ as a good anti-nausea agent, but only fair at pain relief. I had a bike wreck once years ago while I was in college – tore my chin open and got several stitches. Unfortunately since I got sewn up at the student health center they didn’t have much in the way of pain relievers to give me so I got myself good and high instead (and stayed that way) for a couple days. FWIW I’m happy to report that during that time if my chin bothered me I don’t have any recollection of it. Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever.
That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble!
Yes, but there are not narcotic task forces set up to arrest Xanax distributors. It is an addictive, psychoactive drug. It is legal to prescribe. Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others!
You may assert that it is a "wrong" decision to take certain substances. Too much fat in the diet can kill, if slowly. Too many antihistamines can impair judgment and cause fatal car accidents. But you are correct that two wrongs don’t make a right. Throwing someone in jail because they abuse substances has not and will not solve the problems. It merely inflames and exacerbates them. I’m not suggesting heroin and cocaine, etc. be available at the local bar or that the Nods brand of heroin should be advertised in TV Guide. I’m not sure what system might be best. But face, those drugs are every bit as much "here to stay" as alcohol and cigarettes. And it’s only getting worse. Putting people in jail for dubious choices has solved absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Response:
I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
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It has come to my attention that merriman wrote in article I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits.
[snip] Ken, I respect your opinion, but I feel you need to get your facts down better in support of it. Here are a few highlights of the anti-marijuana and drug-control movements I picked up in a short Web search (they match and expand what I posted from memory a few days ago). [Begin cited material] {Historical background} (From the High Times Web page) 1766 – Abstract from a Treatise on Hemp An effort to encourage Colonial Americans to grow hemp, it describes recreational, industrial and medical uses along with some interesting historical background. 1815 – Jefferson’s Hemp Break Thomas Jefferson provides a good argument for hemp cultivation in a letter which describes his idea for a device for breaking hemp – a most difficult but necessary step in preparing hemp stalks for fiber production. 1883 – A Hashish-House in New York The curious adventures of an individual who indulged in a few pipefuls of the narcotic hemp. 1895 – Orgies of the Hemp Eaters This article from the long-defunct New York Herald newspaper describes the exotic rituals of the Nosairiyeh tribesmen of northern Syria, whose ceremonies involved consuming vast quantities of hashish. 1917 – The Decorticating Machine George Schlichten perfected a machine which revolutionized the processing of hemp … and then both he and his machine disappeared from the pages of history. 1926 – Science and Invention: Our Home Hasheesh Crop The opinion of government plant-scientists given in response to an inquiry from Science Service. 1937 – Marijuana: Assassin of Youth Harry J. Anslinger’s alarmist study of adolescent cannabis use. -Anslinger’s views were included in the 1930s movie "Reefer Madness" [Specific legislation] {From http://www.ums.edu/~rkeel/180/narcotic.html} Harrison Narcotics Act of 1914 – Primarily focussed on opiates Outlaws sale and distribution: Heavy tax penalty. Leads to creation of the Bureau of Narcotics (tax collection agency) Other rulings effectively eliminate the medical use and prescription of heroin. By 1920, distinctive shift in the addict population, the Image of the drug, and use patterns. 1925: Linder Case successfully challenges the regulations prohibiting doctors from "maintaining" an addict. Due to the recent history of harassment (as many as 25,000 physicians were arrested over a total of 25 years, 3,000 served prison sentences and thousands had their licenses suspended), few doctors would. 1962 ruling: Robinson v. California, reaffirms ruling in "Linder" and suggests present legal policies concerning the use of opiates in medical settings is unconstitutional Even during the 1920’s a number of publicly funded "heroin clinics" were opened, but administrative problems and public stereotypes led to their closing. The Harrison Act of 1914 is seen by many (Alfred Lindsmith) as being the source of our modern problems, it: Created a criminal class that had not existed previously (being an addict was criminal, by definition by 1920; and their involvement led to a variety of criminal behaviors- Economic/Compulsive, increasing price of heroin. Was essential in the development of the "addict subculture" (Lindsmith, one of the first to study its formation and suggest the link to our social and legal policies, was attacked by Anslinger who attempted to have Lindsmith fired from his university position) The number of addicts remained rather small and non-problematic through the 1940’s (approximately 20,000 known) Throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s there was dramatic growth; Preble and Casey: The recruitment power of the Subculture of Addicts The significance of the "career" and the group interaction. Addiction as a socio-cultural rather than a pharmacological reality Motivation for remaining in the subculture: It’s a Meaningful life! Networks and satisfaction of accomplishment: Meeting the challenge- survival and economics. {End quoted material} This is an extremely important topic for our society and for those who need drugs, but it is off topic in these newsgroups. I’ll be glad to continue via email if anybody wishes to, but I do not plan to post on — Don
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Free people should be able to make there own choice as to what they put into their bodies. This is a matter of personal freedom, live and let live. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That was the theory with the Arizona law. It legalized allowed all drugs to be prescribed by doctors and de-crimanalized simple possession. It turned what is now a legal problem into what it should be, a health problem. The amount of police man-hours an jail and penal space it would open up is incredible. the cops and prosecuters don’t like it because it gets rid of all the easy busts and prosecutions, so they have to go after "real" crimnals instead. The other thing I liked about this law is that it would take a lot of the money/power away from the gangbangers. They’d have to go back to washing cars for a living. Let’s face it, in a free market situation, the Crips just couldn”t compete with Mirck. —— The Skipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, snip Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. snip George M. Carter
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ?? — The best things in life are free!
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs.
Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication.
Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply
What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
Hi Nat, You are a very well informed and interesting person. I have enjoyed your posting often. Them Brits started all this huh. lol just kidding. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather
Hi Merriman, How can this be. They must not grow mj in Ark. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather regards ken merriman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I also wonder the same thing. I inject methotrexate on a weekly basis, have been for two years. There was a time when I did this and took medication prescribed by my doctor to ward off the nausea from the injection. Then a friend gave me Cannabis which relieved the nausea. All I know is what works for me, it works so I use it. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. JAC Portland, OR
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Hi, all– Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Thanks very much. Please email me. Katherine Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work . Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever. Harv
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Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference?
Hmmm. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s being studied, but *anything* can be studied. And who knows, maybe there’s something to it – not that it’ll ever make any difference for me while I’m living in a state like Indiana. Our local legislature here isn’t terribly progressive when it comes to stuff like that, and since federal authorities have been going after doctors who prescribe other pain medications as well I’m not sure the current political climate bodes well for chronic pain sufferers anywhere in the US. Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work .
Hmmm. My understanding was that with cancer patients MJ was prescribed to help cope with the inevitable nausea that results from chemotherapy. From my own experience I’d rate MJ as a good anti-nausea agent, but only fair at pain relief. I had a bike wreck once years ago while I was in college – tore my chin open and got several stitches. Unfortunately since I got sewn up at the student health center they didn’t have much in the way of pain relievers to give me so I got myself good and high instead (and stayed that way) for a couple days. FWIW I’m happy to report that during that time if my chin bothered me I don’t have any recollection of it. Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever.
That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Well spoken George I agree 100% might I suggest the Libertarian Party an a rational option to the two present ruling parties that seem to want to jail more Americans for nonviolent acts to "keep us safe" regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. True, but the fact that rich conservatives now not only OWN America but RULE it as well, and of course they think pain is good for you, which is why they take all our money. <G
uh huh like the guy who owns cnn and gives a billion to support the left and the gov robs you of your money and your childrens children but this is not the place for that discussion and why do it with people that havent figured out the mj makes our young people say huh alot while the left forgets to teach our childred to read. Sorry to the group– I will not respond or discuss this again. Harv
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Not long ago, I saw a portion of a newsclip that mentioned some- thing to the effect that marijuana had been found to be useful, or potentially useful, in the control of pain and inflammation. However, I was unable to track down any specific article. Searches on Medline have turned up a couple of old refs for experimentation into the control of induced seizures in mice using artificial cannibinoid, but these don’t appear to have much bearing on the herb’s potential for treating the pain and inflammation of human arthritis. There are, however, plenty of refs for the use of marijuana to control drug-induced nausea, and also to reduce interocular pressure. Run a DejaNews search for my post a week or so ago; it has a number of links. I’ve checked these again recently, but no study as mentioned in the newsclip has shown up yet. Stacy Scott
The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
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That’s where I saw it first, but they didn’t have it on sfgate. Sfgate says it only has articles written by Chronicle staff, so it must have been a national news story. If anyone finds the ref, can you write me, please? Thanks! Katherine The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
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I still happened to have the article … it’s by Robert Lee Hotz of the Los Angeles Times. In summary, it says new animal studies by research groups at the University of California San Francisco, the University of Michigan and Brown University show that cannabinoids, which include the active ingredient in marijuana, relieve several kinds of pain, including the kind of inflammation associated with arthritis when injected directly in the site of the injury. It says this new class of chemicals is not addictive, and does not appear to carry the risk that patients may develop tolerance for it. It was a paper presented at a meeting of the Society for Neuroscience in New Orleans. The story was in the 10/27 SF Chronicle.
I also found a site of interest: the text of the NIH’s Workshop on the Medical Utility of Marijuana’s report to the director. It’s at: http://www.nih.gov/news/medmarijuana/MedicalMarijuana.htm There are extensive refs in the article. Stacy Scott
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Does the article indicate if the beneficial effect after injection is permanent or temporary? Thanks for info Kate Send in the clowns
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Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Thanks and well said Harv
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sorry Bill but I’d say you were wrong you seem to feel the the fact of illegality some how makes this a better world and I’m pretty darn sure that this is not true in spite of how the Federal govt & other branches look at it regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble!
Yes, but there are not narcotic task forces set up to arrest Xanax distributors. It is an addictive, psychoactive drug. It is legal to prescribe. Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others!
You may assert that it is a "wrong" decision to take certain substances. Too much fat in the diet can kill, if slowly. Too many antihistamines can impair judgment and cause fatal car accidents. But you are correct that two wrongs don’t make a right. Throwing someone in jail because they abuse substances has not and will not solve the problems. It merely inflames and exacerbates them. I’m not suggesting heroin and cocaine, etc. be available at the local bar or that the Nods brand of heroin should be advertised in TV Guide. I’m not sure what system might be best. But face, those drugs are every bit as much "here to stay" as alcohol and cigarettes. And it’s only getting worse. Putting people in jail for dubious choices has solved absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
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It has come to my attention that merriman wrote in article I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits.
[snip] Ken, I respect your opinion, but I feel you need to get your facts down better in support of it. Here are a few highlights of the anti-marijuana and drug-control movements I picked up in a short Web search (they match and expand what I posted from memory a few days ago). [Begin cited material] {Historical background} (From the High Times Web page) 1766 – Abstract from a Treatise on Hemp An effort to encourage Colonial Americans to grow hemp, it describes recreational, industrial and medical uses along with some interesting historical background. 1815 – Jefferson’s Hemp Break Thomas Jefferson provides a good argument for hemp cultivation in a letter which describes his idea for a device for breaking hemp – a most difficult but necessary step in preparing hemp stalks for fiber production. 1883 – A Hashish-House in New York The curious adventures of an individual who indulged in a few pipefuls of the narcotic hemp. 1895 – Orgies of the Hemp Eaters This article from the long-defunct New York Herald newspaper describes the exotic rituals of the Nosairiyeh tribesmen of northern Syria, whose ceremonies involved consuming vast quantities of hashish. 1917 – The Decorticating Machine George Schlichten perfected a machine which revolutionized the processing of hemp … and then both he and his machine disappeared from the pages of history. 1926 – Science and Invention: Our Home Hasheesh Crop The opinion of government plant-scientists given in response to an inquiry from Science Service. 1937 – Marijuana: Assassin of Youth Harry J. Anslinger’s alarmist study of adolescent cannabis use. -Anslinger’s views were included in the 1930s movie "Reefer Madness" [Specific legislation] {From http://www.ums.edu/~rkeel/180/narcotic.html} Harrison Narcotics Act of 1914 – Primarily focussed on opiates Outlaws sale and distribution: Heavy tax penalty. Leads to creation of the Bureau of Narcotics (tax collection agency) Other rulings effectively eliminate the medical use and prescription of heroin. By 1920, distinctive shift in the addict population, the Image of the drug, and use patterns. 1925: Linder Case successfully challenges the regulations prohibiting doctors from "maintaining" an addict. Due to the recent history of harassment (as many as 25,000 physicians were arrested over a total of 25 years, 3,000 served prison sentences and thousands had their licenses suspended), few doctors would. 1962 ruling: Robinson v. California, reaffirms ruling in "Linder" and suggests present legal policies concerning the use of opiates in medical settings is unconstitutional Even during the 1920’s a number of publicly funded "heroin clinics" were opened, but administrative problems and public stereotypes led to their closing. The Harrison Act of 1914 is seen by many (Alfred Lindsmith) as being the source of our modern problems, it: Created a criminal class that had not existed previously (being an addict was criminal, by definition by 1920; and their involvement led to a variety of criminal behaviors- Economic/Compulsive, increasing price of heroin. Was essential in the development of the "addict subculture" (Lindsmith, one of the first to study its formation and suggest the link to our social and legal policies, was attacked by Anslinger who attempted to have Lindsmith fired from his university position) The number of addicts remained rather small and non-problematic through the 1940’s (approximately 20,000 known) Throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s there was dramatic growth; Preble and Casey: The recruitment power of the Subculture of Addicts The significance of the "career" and the group interaction. Addiction as a socio-cultural rather than a pharmacological reality Motivation for remaining in the subculture: It’s a Meaningful life! Networks and satisfaction of accomplishment: Meeting the challenge- survival and economics. {End quoted material} This is an extremely important topic for our society and for those who need drugs, but it is off topic in these newsgroups. I’ll be glad to continue via email if anybody wishes to, but I do not plan to post on — Don
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Free people should be able to make there own choice as to what they put into their bodies. This is a matter of personal freedom, live and let live. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That was the theory with the Arizona law. It legalized allowed all drugs to be prescribed by doctors and de-crimanalized simple possession. It turned what is now a legal problem into what it should be, a health problem. The amount of police man-hours an jail and penal space it would open up is incredible. the cops and prosecuters don’t like it because it gets rid of all the easy busts and prosecutions, so they have to go after "real" crimnals instead. The other thing I liked about this law is that it would take a lot of the money/power away from the gangbangers. They’d have to go back to washing cars for a living. Let’s face it, in a free market situation, the Crips just couldn”t compete with Mirck. —— The Skipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, snip Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. snip George M. Carter
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ?? — The best things in life are free!
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs.
Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication.
Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply
What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
Hi Nat, You are a very well informed and interesting person. I have enjoyed your posting often. Them Brits started all this huh. lol just kidding. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather
Hi Merriman, How can this be. They must not grow mj in Ark. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather regards ken merriman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I also wonder the same thing. I inject methotrexate on a weekly basis, have been for two years. There was a time when I did this and took medication prescribed by my doctor to ward off the nausea from the injection. Then a friend gave me Cannabis which relieved the nausea. All I know is what works for me, it works so I use it. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. JAC Portland, OR
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Hi, all– Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Thanks very much. Please email me. Katherine Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work . Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever. Harv
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Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference?
Hmmm. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s being studied, but *anything* can be studied. And who knows, maybe there’s something to it – not that it’ll ever make any difference for me while I’m living in a state like Indiana. Our local legislature here isn’t terribly progressive when it comes to stuff like that, and since federal authorities have been going after doctors who prescribe other pain medications as well I’m not sure the current political climate bodes well for chronic pain sufferers anywhere in the US. Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work .
Hmmm. My understanding was that with cancer patients MJ was prescribed to help cope with the inevitable nausea that results from chemotherapy. From my own experience I’d rate MJ as a good anti-nausea agent, but only fair at pain relief. I had a bike wreck once years ago while I was in college – tore my chin open and got several stitches. Unfortunately since I got sewn up at the student health center they didn’t have much in the way of pain relievers to give me so I got myself good and high instead (and stayed that way) for a couple days. FWIW I’m happy to report that during that time if my chin bothered me I don’t have any recollection of it. Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever.
That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Well spoken George I agree 100% might I suggest the Libertarian Party an a rational option to the two present ruling parties that seem to want to jail more Americans for nonviolent acts to "keep us safe" regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. True, but the fact that rich conservatives now not only OWN America but RULE it as well, and of course they think pain is good for you, which is why they take all our money. <G
uh huh like the guy who owns cnn and gives a billion to support the left and the gov robs you of your money and your childrens children but this is not the place for that discussion and why do it with people that havent figured out the mj makes our young people say huh alot while the left forgets to teach our childred to read. Sorry to the group– I will not respond or discuss this again. Harv
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Not long ago, I saw a portion of a newsclip that mentioned some- thing to the effect that marijuana had been found to be useful, or potentially useful, in the control of pain and inflammation. However, I was unable to track down any specific article. Searches on Medline have turned up a couple of old refs for experimentation into the control of induced seizures in mice using artificial cannibinoid, but these don’t appear to have much bearing on the herb’s potential for treating the pain and inflammation of human arthritis. There are, however, plenty of refs for the use of marijuana to control drug-induced nausea, and also to reduce interocular pressure. Run a DejaNews search for my post a week or so ago; it has a number of links. I’ve checked these again recently, but no study as mentioned in the newsclip has shown up yet. Stacy Scott
The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
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That’s where I saw it first, but they didn’t have it on sfgate. Sfgate says it only has articles written by Chronicle staff, so it must have been a national news story. If anyone finds the ref, can you write me, please? Thanks! Katherine The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
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I still happened to have the article … it’s by Robert Lee Hotz of the Los Angeles Times. In summary, it says new animal studies by research groups at the University of California San Francisco, the University of Michigan and Brown University show that cannabinoids, which include the active ingredient in marijuana, relieve several kinds of pain, including the kind of inflammation associated with arthritis when injected directly in the site of the injury. It says this new class of chemicals is not addictive, and does not appear to carry the risk that patients may develop tolerance for it. It was a paper presented at a meeting of the Society for Neuroscience in New Orleans. The story was in the 10/27 SF Chronicle.
I also found a site of interest: the text of the NIH’s Workshop on the Medical Utility of Marijuana’s report to the director. It’s at: http://www.nih.gov/news/medmarijuana/MedicalMarijuana.htm There are extensive refs in the article. Stacy Scott
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Does the article indicate if the beneficial effect after injection is permanent or temporary? Thanks for info Kate Send in the clowns
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Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Thanks and well said Harv
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sorry Bill but I’d say you were wrong you seem to feel the the fact of illegality some how makes this a better world and I’m pretty darn sure that this is not true in spite of how the Federal govt & other branches look at it regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble!
Yes, but there are not narcotic task forces set up to arrest Xanax distributors. It is an addictive, psychoactive drug. It is legal to prescribe. Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others!
You may assert that it is a "wrong" decision to take certain substances. Too much fat in the diet can kill, if slowly. Too many antihistamines can impair judgment and cause fatal car accidents. But you are correct that two wrongs don’t make a right. Throwing someone in jail because they abuse substances has not and will not solve the problems. It merely inflames and exacerbates them. I’m not suggesting heroin and cocaine, etc. be available at the local bar or that the Nods brand of heroin should be advertised in TV Guide. I’m not sure what system might be best. But face, those drugs are every bit as much "here to stay" as alcohol and cigarettes. And it’s only getting worse. Putting people in jail for dubious choices has solved absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
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I think you make a mistake in assuming a relationship between marijuana and tobacco or nicotine. Marijuana, unlike the other two, is essentially non-addictive, does not cause major health problems (so far as we know), and has been shown not to pose any where near a comparable risk (to alcohol) when someone is behind the wheel. Aside from that there are several valid clinical uses for marijuana in which it surpasses current treatments. Also it makes a good adjunct to many standard treatments. I think it’s a shame to let dogma like ‘just say no’ to stop an herb from helping people
Hi Frank, Why do young people who use it alot say "HUH" or Would you repeat the question again????? Harv
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It has come to my attention that merriman wrote in article I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits.
[snip] Ken, I respect your opinion, but I feel you need to get your facts down better in support of it. Here are a few highlights of the anti-marijuana and drug-control movements I picked up in a short Web search (they match and expand what I posted from memory a few days ago). [Begin cited material] {Historical background} (From the High Times Web page) 1766 – Abstract from a Treatise on Hemp An effort to encourage Colonial Americans to grow hemp, it describes recreational, industrial and medical uses along with some interesting historical background. 1815 – Jefferson’s Hemp Break Thomas Jefferson provides a good argument for hemp cultivation in a letter which describes his idea for a device for breaking hemp – a most difficult but necessary step in preparing hemp stalks for fiber production. 1883 – A Hashish-House in New York The curious adventures of an individual who indulged in a few pipefuls of the narcotic hemp. 1895 – Orgies of the Hemp Eaters This article from the long-defunct New York Herald newspaper describes the exotic rituals of the Nosairiyeh tribesmen of northern Syria, whose ceremonies involved consuming vast quantities of hashish. 1917 – The Decorticating Machine George Schlichten perfected a machine which revolutionized the processing of hemp … and then both he and his machine disappeared from the pages of history. 1926 – Science and Invention: Our Home Hasheesh Crop The opinion of government plant-scientists given in response to an inquiry from Science Service. 1937 – Marijuana: Assassin of Youth Harry J. Anslinger’s alarmist study of adolescent cannabis use. -Anslinger’s views were included in the 1930s movie "Reefer Madness" [Specific legislation] {From http://www.ums.edu/~rkeel/180/narcotic.html} Harrison Narcotics Act of 1914 – Primarily focussed on opiates Outlaws sale and distribution: Heavy tax penalty. Leads to creation of the Bureau of Narcotics (tax collection agency) Other rulings effectively eliminate the medical use and prescription of heroin. By 1920, distinctive shift in the addict population, the Image of the drug, and use patterns. 1925: Linder Case successfully challenges the regulations prohibiting doctors from "maintaining" an addict. Due to the recent history of harassment (as many as 25,000 physicians were arrested over a total of 25 years, 3,000 served prison sentences and thousands had their licenses suspended), few doctors would. 1962 ruling: Robinson v. California, reaffirms ruling in "Linder" and suggests present legal policies concerning the use of opiates in medical settings is unconstitutional Even during the 1920’s a number of publicly funded "heroin clinics" were opened, but administrative problems and public stereotypes led to their closing. The Harrison Act of 1914 is seen by many (Alfred Lindsmith) as being the source of our modern problems, it: Created a criminal class that had not existed previously (being an addict was criminal, by definition by 1920; and their involvement led to a variety of criminal behaviors- Economic/Compulsive, increasing price of heroin. Was essential in the development of the "addict subculture" (Lindsmith, one of the first to study its formation and suggest the link to our social and legal policies, was attacked by Anslinger who attempted to have Lindsmith fired from his university position) The number of addicts remained rather small and non-problematic through the 1940’s (approximately 20,000 known) Throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s there was dramatic growth; Preble and Casey: The recruitment power of the Subculture of Addicts The significance of the "career" and the group interaction. Addiction as a socio-cultural rather than a pharmacological reality Motivation for remaining in the subculture: It’s a Meaningful life! Networks and satisfaction of accomplishment: Meeting the challenge- survival and economics. {End quoted material} This is an extremely important topic for our society and for those who need drugs, but it is off topic in these newsgroups. I’ll be glad to continue via email if anybody wishes to, but I do not plan to post on — Don
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Free people should be able to make there own choice as to what they put into their bodies. This is a matter of personal freedom, live and let live. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That was the theory with the Arizona law. It legalized allowed all drugs to be prescribed by doctors and de-crimanalized simple possession. It turned what is now a legal problem into what it should be, a health problem. The amount of police man-hours an jail and penal space it would open up is incredible. the cops and prosecuters don’t like it because it gets rid of all the easy busts and prosecutions, so they have to go after "real" crimnals instead. The other thing I liked about this law is that it would take a lot of the money/power away from the gangbangers. They’d have to go back to washing cars for a living. Let’s face it, in a free market situation, the Crips just couldn”t compete with Mirck. —— The Skipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, snip Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. snip George M. Carter
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Did you see the Bumper sticker; "Dare to keep the CIA off drugs" ?? — The best things in life are free!
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs.
Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication.
Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply
What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. Actually technically the roots of the hysteria lie in the British East India Company’s conquest and annexation of Punjab in 1848. In order to recoup the costs of administering that territory British trade officials looked at the Punjab’s locally produced resources for something with good export value, and what they saw were fields and fields of pretty red poppies. So, as part of a campaign to mind their own pockets and boost the local economy the seeds of the Opium War were sown. Our American revulsion at drugs is very heavily based on an inherited Anglo guilt complex over that episode. The justifiably self-righteous political power base that arose out of movements like Women’s Suffrage and the WCTU couldn’t help but notice the excesses involved in our own internal sale and use of drugs after the turn of the century. It’s just that the prohibition and criminalization of other drugs stuck a lot more firmly than similar efforts did vs alcohol. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. Well, let’s be fair. I consider it to be both, and if it was fully decriminalized as NORML promotes I suspect that 99% of the ensuing resurgence of pot use would be recreatational rather than medicinal. But getting back to the post that started this thread, clearly some of it *would* be medicinal because the plant isn’t totally devoid of useful virtues. I guess it’s just unfortunate for nausea sufferers (as well as for people interested in studying other possible benefits) that making that point to our Body Politic would be sadly lost in hysteria. It’s easier for them to leave us to suffer than it would be for them to examine their own beliefs and motives. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
Hi Nat, You are a very well informed and interesting person. I have enjoyed your posting often. Them Brits started all this huh. lol just kidding. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather
Hi Merriman, How can this be. They must not grow mj in Ark. Harv
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hi check with the Libertarian Party but I’m pretty sure that the # of people lockedup by Slick Willie for cannibas "violations" surpasses the # under regan & Bush + a few others added togeather regards ken merriman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. I also wonder the same thing. I inject methotrexate on a weekly basis, have been for two years. There was a time when I did this and took medication prescribed by my doctor to ward off the nausea from the injection. Then a friend gave me Cannabis which relieved the nausea. All I know is what works for me, it works so I use it. I believe the hysteria started during the REA-GUN years and his war on drugs. I don’t consider Cannabis a drug, I consider it medication. JAC Portland, OR
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Hi, all– Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Thanks very much. Please email me. Katherine Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work . Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever. Harv
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Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference?
Hmmm. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s being studied, but *anything* can be studied. And who knows, maybe there’s something to it – not that it’ll ever make any difference for me while I’m living in a state like Indiana. Our local legislature here isn’t terribly progressive when it comes to stuff like that, and since federal authorities have been going after doctors who prescribe other pain medications as well I’m not sure the current political climate bodes well for chronic pain sufferers anywhere in the US. Hi Katherine, Are you sure this is what you want to do for Arth? If it will cover the pain of cancer, It should work .
Hmmm. My understanding was that with cancer patients MJ was prescribed to help cope with the inevitable nausea that results from chemotherapy. From my own experience I’d rate MJ as a good anti-nausea agent, but only fair at pain relief. I had a bike wreck once years ago while I was in college – tore my chin open and got several stitches. Unfortunately since I got sewn up at the student health center they didn’t have much in the way of pain relievers to give me so I got myself good and high instead (and stayed that way) for a couple days. FWIW I’m happy to report that during that time if my chin bothered me I don’t have any recollection of it. Have you tried knoni juice or emuuuu oil? If someone answers your question are they sure they are not contributing to the local crooks that sell it or are you under 18 or 21–whatever.
That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. — Nathan Engle Electron Juggler Indiana University Dept of Psychology "Some Assembly Required"
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I believe the hysteria kind of started in the 50’s ( reefer maddness) you know all the "black jazz musicians" used it so to white 50’s establishment it was very evil but signifigant legal/police moves against "devil weed" didn’t start until the Nixon era ( the guy was a bit paranoid so they say ) it could be eaten in various ways / the buyers clubs in california distribute information so I’m told regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Well spoken George I agree 100% might I suggest the Libertarian Party an a rational option to the two present ruling parties that seem to want to jail more Americans for nonviolent acts to "keep us safe" regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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That possibility doesn’t bother me particularly. If our govt was all that worried about the business being in the hands of criminals they could make an excellent start by just not defining everyone who uses MJ as such. True, but the fact that rich conservatives now not only OWN America but RULE it as well, and of course they think pain is good for you, which is why they take all our money. <G
uh huh like the guy who owns cnn and gives a billion to support the left and the gov robs you of your money and your childrens children but this is not the place for that discussion and why do it with people that havent figured out the mj makes our young people say huh alot while the left forgets to teach our childred to read. Sorry to the group– I will not respond or discuss this again. Harv
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently I read a newspaper article about isolates from marijuana being studied as pain relievers, but I lost the reference. Has anyone heard anything about this? Can you send me the reference? Not long ago, I saw a portion of a newsclip that mentioned some- thing to the effect that marijuana had been found to be useful, or potentially useful, in the control of pain and inflammation. However, I was unable to track down any specific article. Searches on Medline have turned up a couple of old refs for experimentation into the control of induced seizures in mice using artificial cannibinoid, but these don’t appear to have much bearing on the herb’s potential for treating the pain and inflammation of human arthritis. There are, however, plenty of refs for the use of marijuana to control drug-induced nausea, and also to reduce interocular pressure. Run a DejaNews search for my post a week or so ago; it has a number of links. I’ve checked these again recently, but no study as mentioned in the newsclip has shown up yet. Stacy Scott
The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
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That’s where I saw it first, but they didn’t have it on sfgate. Sfgate says it only has articles written by Chronicle staff, so it must have been a national news story. If anyone finds the ref, can you write me, please? Thanks! Katherine The article was in the San Francisco Chronicle some time in the past couple of weeks. It said injections of cannabinoids into joints appeared to reduce inflammation. You should be able to find it at www.sfgate.com, the Chronicle’s web site.
Take the zzz out of my address to write to me.
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I still happened to have the article … it’s by Robert Lee Hotz of the Los Angeles Times. In summary, it says new animal studies by research groups at the University of California San Francisco, the University of Michigan and Brown University show that cannabinoids, which include the active ingredient in marijuana, relieve several kinds of pain, including the kind of inflammation associated with arthritis when injected directly in the site of the injury. It says this new class of chemicals is not addictive, and does not appear to carry the risk that patients may develop tolerance for it. It was a paper presented at a meeting of the Society for Neuroscience in New Orleans. The story was in the 10/27 SF Chronicle.
I also found a site of interest: the text of the NIH’s Workshop on the Medical Utility of Marijuana’s report to the director. It’s at: http://www.nih.gov/news/medmarijuana/MedicalMarijuana.htm There are extensive refs in the article. Stacy Scott
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I always wonder about the hysteria surrounding marijuana. It’s a plant that has medicinal properties, but because of its illicit use, it gets snubbed in terms of its potential benefits. Personally, I would use it if it were legal and beneficial, and if it were dispensed in a form you didn’t have to smoke. The thought of sucking burning plant matter into my lungs – *shudder*. Anita
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Does the article indicate if the beneficial effect after injection is permanent or temporary? Thanks for info Kate Send in the clowns
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Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
Thanks and well said Harv
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sorry Bill but I’d say you were wrong you seem to feel the the fact of illegality some how makes this a better world and I’m pretty darn sure that this is not true in spite of how the Federal govt & other branches look at it regards ken merriman md – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are two important strides with regard to marijuana research. One: there is indeed a prescribable chemical derivative, dronnabinol, that represents one of the cannabinoids found in marijuana. Used to treat nausea and stimulate appetite. Some have found it very helpful; others prefer the herb. It has side effects. Two: Dr. Donald Abrams has been given the go ahead to test marijuana itself in a clinical setting in people with HIV. Partly to see if it has any effects on drugs (protease inhibitors) used to treat HIV. Putting people in jail for using some substances (marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc.) while not others (tobacco, alcohol, Xanax) is simply What a ridicules argument! For one thing, Xanax is a prescription drug…. I assure you, if you are cought possessing it without a prescription, you WILL be in trouble! Tobacco and alcohol are here.. period! Making them legal was, without a doubt, a mistake! This argument that somehow two or three or four wrongs will some how turn into a right is stupid! Making more dangerous and/or addictive substances legal is not an answer. As far as alcohol and tobacco go, the "genie is out of the bottle," so to speak, and we will have to live with the mistake, but that does not justify compounding the mistake with others! hypocritical. It costs our economy enormous amounts of money and people power and resources. It sustains an black market trade that results in enormous amounts of bloodshed and funds gun running and covert operations. Those resources could be better applied to research into addiction and recovery research–from the physical/biological/chemical to the psychological to addressing housing, child care, job skills training and other needs. I.e., treatment for people with undesired addictions and prevention efforts to assure that people find options to avoid addiction. Meantime, people WILL decide, rightly or wrongly, to become addicted to all kinds of things from coffee to crack. Putting them in jail because of that choice solves absolutely nothing. George M. Carter
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mr. A. I do the same thing. I seem to take everything personally. I used to wake up with nightmares and an anxiety attack after watching something sad or tragic on the news or even on a t.v. show. I quit watching the news after 9-11. I just read my local paper and briefly skim the headlines on AOL news. The news is way to graphic and detailed for my taste anymore. I am the same way if my family or friends or even strangers tell me something sad that they are dealing with. I feel like it is happening to me too. I do think this is a common thing for anxiety sufferers. we are more sensitive to what others are feeling. As for dealing with it,I havent figured out completely yet how to do that. I can quit watching the news and disturbing t.v. programs but there is still so much sadness and grief and pain all around us that its impossible to completely ignore everything that might upset us. Deb . One thing I notice with my depression and anxiety is that I sort of take everything personally. I hear bad news, such as deaths in Iraq, and it, for the lack of a better explanation, scares me. Any thing I hear on the news that is slightly negative gives me the jitters. Since 99.9% of the news in the US tends to be bad, listening to any news tends to make me anxious. It even goes beyond the news programs. It is like I’m feeling everyone else’s pain. Something doesn’t have to be all that bad and I put a negative spin on it. Is this common and how do you deal with it? Mr. A. 
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Good vibes for Becky. Healing thoughts for those grieving tonite. 
I agree with that. But BT is trying to one-up everyone else who doesn’t toe the BT line. Kiss my ass Spellsinger. I have very STRONG feeling about this and it ain’t one upmanship. I will not take THAT kind of abuse from you shithead. My mother is dead from this. Her Brothers are dead from this. I have been smashed to the ground and made bloody as a child from this. I was booted to the streets at 14 because of this.. Not me drinking and abusing doctor drugs. My mother and father.