Question:

No Coleah … you are not understanding yet again. It’s not ‘period.’ Your buddy Probert has denied  he was ever a lawyer and never disbarred … you have also spread this lie … That is what Ms Drew I believe was referring to … his continued dishonesty backed by your dishonesty. Seems like Mr Probert is being yet again dishonest and pretending that he was never a lawyer and never disbarred. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm Full text and details of his disbarment *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. What lie, asswipe? By 2002 I was well into my third career. Use your fingers, idiot, to figure it out. Now what? Jan has an ‘issue’ about how many careers someone has enjoyed in their lifetime ?

Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar…. Nothing was *Incorrect*… Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.health, japan.life.health, misc.health by this author Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Smith. You must be new. Go to google and read every post of mine. You will find out that I am into my third career, am the father of two special chidlren, married for nearly 30 years, and devoutly believe in fact based medicine.

Response:

Have you and Jan nothing better to occupy your minds? The man said he’d had 3 careers by age 55.  Period.

NO, he said: Incorrect! He is a liar! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No Coleah … you are not understanding yet again. Your buddy Probert has denied  he was ever a lawyer and never disbarred … you have also spread this lie … That is what Ms Drew I believe was referring to … his continued dishonesty backed by your dishonesty. Seems like Mr Probert is being yet again dishonest and pretending that he was never a lawyer and never disbarred. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm Full text and details of his disbarment *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Response:

No Coleah … you are not understanding yet again. Your buddy Probert has denied  he was ever a lawyer and never disbarred … you have also spread this lie … That is what Ms Drew I believe was referring to … his continued dishonesty backed by your dishonesty. Seems like Mr Probert is being yet again dishonest and pretending that he was never a lawyer and never disbarred. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm Full text and details of his disbarment *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Response:

Have you and Jan nothing better to occupy your minds? The man said he’d had 3 careers by age 55.  Period. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No Coleah … you are not understanding yet again. Your buddy Probert has denied  he was ever a lawyer and never disbarred … you have also spread this lie … That is what Ms Drew I believe was referring to … his continued dishonesty backed by your dishonesty. Seems like Mr Probert is being yet again dishonest and pretending that he was never a lawyer and never disbarred. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm Full text and details of his disbarment *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. What lie, asswipe? By 2002 I was well into my third career. Use your fingers, idiot, to figure it out. Now what? Jan has an ‘issue’ about how many careers someone has enjoyed in their lifetime ?

I think that Jan still believes that the standard should be one. I actually had "four" counting military service. The best part was field testing the XM21.

Response:

Seems like Mr Probert is being yet again dishonest and pretending that he was never a lawyer and never disbarred. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm Full text and details of his disbarment *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Response:

Seems like Mr Probert is being

Not your enemy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. What lie, asswipe? By 2002 I was well into my third career. Use your fingers, idiot, to figure it out.

Now what? Jan has an ‘issue’ about how many careers someone has enjoyed in their lifetime ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION. The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent. Again, Coleah is not correct. It has been shown (by Volkow, et al) that the ADHD brain does not properly process dopamine and, by using a mild CNS stimulant like MPH, that deficiency is fixed. Some &^%$# decides who has a ADHD brain…. Jan, you misspelled "very intelligent woman": http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/welcome/Volkowpage.html She is the director of the National Institute of Drug Abuse, and, with her experience and expertise, she is, IMNSHO, Bush’s finest appointment. "Dr. Volkow came to NIDA from Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), where she held concurrent positions including associate director for life sciences, director of nuclear medicine, and director of the NIDA-Department of Energy Regional Neuroimaging Center. In addition, Dr. Volkow was a professor in the department of psychiatry and associate dean of the medical school at the State University of New York (SUNY)-Stony Brook." You surely do not beleive that you are more knowledgeable than her. "Dr. Volkow brings to NIDA a long record of accomplishment in drug addiction research. She is a recognized expert on the brain’s dopamine system with her research focusing on the brains of addicted, obese, and aging individuals. Her studies have documented changes in the dopamine system affecting the actions of frontal brain regions involved with motivation, drive, and pleasure and the decline of brain dopamine function with age." PHYSICISTS. Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting. Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE! Just the opposite, and I have posted on this. It is noted, YOU did not prove it. I proved it before. Look it up. It is in the archives (JanDrewism #349). OTOH, I have and CAN! http://tinyurl.com/kvazd Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. WOW!!!!! And stimulant use is being tested as a treatment for cocaine addiction. Poor Jan.

And Mark Probert LIES again. No where in the above thread was any such thing said, as usual he adds this NOW, with NO proof.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION. The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent. Again, Coleah is not correct. It has been shown (by Volkow, et al) that the ADHD brain does not properly process dopamine and, by using a mild CNS stimulant like MPH, that deficiency is fixed. Some &^%$# decides who has a ADHD brain….

Jan, you misspelled "very intelligent woman": http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/welcome/Volkowpage.html She is the director of the National Institute of Drug Abuse, and, with her experience and expertise, she is, IMNSHO, Bush’s finest appointment. "Dr. Volkow came to NIDA from Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), where she held concurrent positions including associate director for life sciences, director of nuclear medicine, and director of the NIDA-Department of Energy Regional Neuroimaging Center. In addition, Dr. Volkow was a professor in the department of psychiatry and associate dean of the medical school at the State University of New York (SUNY)-Stony Brook." You surely do not beleive that you are more knowledgeable than her. "Dr. Volkow brings to NIDA a long record of accomplishment in drug addiction research. She is a recognized expert on the brain’s dopamine system with her research focusing on the brains of addicted, obese, and aging individuals. Her studies have documented changes in the dopamine system affecting the actions of frontal brain regions involved with motivation, drive, and pleasure and the decline of brain dopamine function with age." PHYSICISTS. Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting. Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE! Just the opposite, and I have posted on this. It is noted, YOU did not prove it.

I proved it before. Look it up. It is in the archives (JanDrewism #349). OTOH, I have and CAN! http://tinyurl.com/kvazd Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. WOW!!!!!

And stimulant use is being tested as a treatment for cocaine addiction. Poor Jan.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. What lie, *Incorrect*

Let’s count…take off your shoes and use your piggies: 1. Federal service 2. Consulting 3. Investigation & Security That makes three…3…tres…(1+2)…(square root of nine)…(cube root of 27)… Now do you get it? Of course not. It is too complex a concept for you. You stayed in the sandbox for 38 years as you never sought to move on. asswipe?

Yes, Ms. Toilet Paper. Forget to read Torah AGAIN today….L I A R…..?  By 2002 I was well into my third career. YES….I CAUGHT YOU LYING AGAIN!!!!!!

No, I caught you being stupid again.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION. The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent. Again, Coleah is not correct. It has been shown (by Volkow, et al) that the ADHD brain does not properly process dopamine and, by using a mild CNS stimulant like MPH, that deficiency is fixed. Some &^%$# decides who has a ADHD brain…. Jan, you misspelled "very intelligent woman": http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/welcome/Volkowpage.html She is the director of the National Institute of Drug Abuse, and, with her experience and expertise, she is, IMNSHO, Bush’s finest appointment. "Dr. Volkow came to NIDA from Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), where she held concurrent positions including associate director for life sciences, director of nuclear medicine, and director of the NIDA-Department of Energy Regional Neuroimaging Center. In addition, Dr. Volkow was a professor in the department of psychiatry and associate dean of the medical school at the State University of New York (SUNY)-Stony Brook." You surely do not beleive that you are more knowledgeable than her. "Dr. Volkow brings to NIDA a long record of accomplishment in drug addiction research. She is a recognized expert on the brain’s dopamine system with her research focusing on the brains of addicted, obese, and aging individuals. Her studies have documented changes in the dopamine system affecting the actions of frontal brain regions involved with motivation, drive, and pleasure and the decline of brain dopamine function with age." PHYSICISTS. Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting. Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE! Just the opposite, and I have posted on this. It is noted, YOU did not prove it. I proved it before. Look it up. It is in the archives (JanDrewism #349). OTOH, I have and CAN! http://tinyurl.com/kvazd Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. WOW!!!!! And stimulant use is being tested as a treatment for cocaine addiction. Poor Jan. And Mark Probert LIES again. No where in the above thread was any such thing said, as usual he adds this NOW, with NO proof.

I have previously posted on it, and, of course, since I proved you totally wrong, you had to dig a nasty out of your anus to post about me.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. What lie,

*Incorrect* asswipe? Forget to read Torah AGAIN today….L I A R…..?  By 2002 I was well into my third career. YES….I CAUGHT YOU LYING AGAIN!!!!!! Use your fingers, idiot,

Find that in your Torah….today….L I A R?????  to figure it out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.health, japan.life.health, misc.health messages by this author Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Smith. You must be new. Go to google and read every post of mine. You will find out that I am into my third career, am the father of two special chidlren, married for nearly 30 years, and devoutly believe in fact based medicine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business. Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar…..

What lie, asswipe? By 2002 I was well into my third career. Use your fingers, idiot, to figure it out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.health, japan.life.health, misc.health by this author Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Smith. You must be new. Go to google and read every post of mine. You will find out that I am into my third career, am the father of two special chidlren, married for nearly 30 years, and devoutly believe in fact based medicine.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION. The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent. Again, Coleah is not correct. It has been shown (by Volkow, et al) that the ADHD brain does not properly process dopamine and, by using a mild CNS stimulant like MPH, that deficiency is fixed.

Some &^%$# decides who has a ADHD brain…. PHYSICISTS. Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting. Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE! Just the opposite, and I have posted on this.

It is noted, YOU did not prove it. OTOH, I have and CAN! http://tinyurl.com/kvazd Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. WOW!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro05/web1/isiddiqui.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. What temper? I speak the truth. No, you complimented him. Says Mark Probert who changes careers three times by the age of 55. Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with retiring from government service after 20+ years of service and then going into consulting. After that stint, I chose to join an old friend in an investigations business.

Let this be further proof of Mark Probert the liar….. Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.health, japan.life.health, misc.health by this author Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Smith. You must be new. Go to google and read every post of mine. You will find out that I am into my third career, am the father of two special chidlren, married for nearly 30 years, and devoutly believe in fact based medicine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION. The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent.

Again, Coleah is not correct. It has been shown (by Volkow, et al) that the ADHD brain does not properly process dopamine and, by using a mild CNS stimulant like MPH, that deficiency is fixed. This has been shown by the use of the PET scan at Brookhaven National Laboratories, where it was developed by people who are called PHYSICISTS. I often go out for seafood at their favorite restaurant, which I highly recommend. Excellent! Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting. Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE!

Just the opposite, and I have posted on this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro05/web1/isiddiqui.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, ADHD drugs reduce the risk that kids with ADHD will abuse drugs. Jeff It’s good to see the FDA doing it’s job. == When in FACT.. they were covering up the TRUTH. == A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. Dr. Breggin is an asshole. Temper…Temper…Jeff. Restoring the truth: And here is all that was left after Jan restored the truth: They call snipping like that "lying" in some circles, Peter. A recent review of data by the FDA seems to verify Dr Breggins assertions. The FDA found that children on ADHD drugs had an increased the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish between real and imaginary events. The most important finding, the FDA said, was that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, occurred in patients with no risk factors, at the usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD.       The FDA found a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which does not typically suffer from psychosis, the FDA said.       From January 2000, through June 30, 2005, FDA identified nearly 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs, including Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.  In addition to all the other side effects associated with ADHD drugs, Dr David Stein, author of "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco," says stimulant drugs are "near the top of the heap of potentially addictive drugs." The Partnership for a Drug Free America, released the results of a survey in 2005, that polled more than 7,300 teenagers, and found one in 10 teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried ADHD drugs without a doctor’s prescription, and that 29% of those surveyed said they had close friends who had abused the drugs.       Experts agree that the wide-spread prescribing of stimulants will lead many children down the path to addiction and they warn of the perils that will follow.  If medical professionals begin telling children at a very young age that they can change the way they think, feel, and behave by simply taking a  pill, they will logically continue to take drugs in attempt to mood-alter whenever they have problems in life. These are the F A C T S! ***"Treatment of ADHD with stimulants such as Ritalin and psychotherapy help to improve the abnormal behaviors of ADHD, as well as the self-esteem, cognition, and social and family function of the patient." Key point:  ’and  PSYCHOTHERAPY’. I believe what you are missing here is that the medication assists children who have abnormally LOW levels of dopamine.  It is administered in low doses and adjusted slowly.  To calm.  Gently. Anyone who abuses drugs (prescribed to them or not) by taking Fast & Hard ‘jolts’ of anything to feel ‘high’, suffers from character defects…Not from low levels of dopamine.  For them, a spiritual transformation is necessary to heal. From all of Jan’s posts, I conclude that she believes that the medication is inherently evil, and that there is no safe usage whatsoever. IMNSHO, Jan is an all-or-nothing concrete thinker. Most interesting to note…. Mark went right along with Coleah’s making up this bit about LOW levels of dopamine. Actually, Coleah is wrong. <snip Hey, stupid, when I take the time to write an explanation why I say something is wrong, leave it alone. Moron. Restored: AD/HD has been shown to manifest problems with the way the brain (look it up, as you have no first hand experience using one) handles dopamine. Let me clarify. ADHD = LOW levels of dopamine TRANSMISSION.

The tests to prove that one diagnosed with ADHD has LOW levels of dopamine… Are NONexistent. Drug abusers jolt the brain with big and fast doses of Ritalin and have HIGH levels of dopamine transmitting.

Those on RITALIN/ADHD DRUGS are at higher RISKS to be addicted to COCAINE! http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro05/web1/isiddiqui.html Dopamine and Addiction Imran Siddiqui Dopamine is neurotransmitter in the brain that plays vital roles in a variety of different behaviors. The major behaviors dopamine affects are movement, cognition, pleasure, and motivation (1). Dopamine is an essential component of the basal ganglia motor loop, as well as the neurotransmitter responsible for controlling the exchange of information from one brain area to another (1). However, it is the role that dopamine plays in pleasure and motivation that attracts the most neurobiologists attention as well as mine. In certain areas of the brain when dopamine is released it gives one the feeling of pleasure or satisfaction (1). These feelings of satisfaction become desired, and the person will grow a desire for the satisfaction. To satisfy that desire the person will repeat behaviors that cause the release of dopamine (2). For example food and sex release dopamine (2). That is why people want food even though their body does not need it and why people sometimes need sex. These two behaviors scientifically make sense since the body needs food to survive, and humans need to have sex to allow the race to survive. However, other, less natural behaviors have the same effect on one’s dopamine levels, and at times can even be more powerful. Often these behaviors can result in addiction due their effect on dopamine, and that addiction can have negative effects on a person’s well-being. Two of such behaviors are Cocaine is by far the more severe of the two in terms of addiction. Cocaine chemically inhibits the natural dopamine cycle. Normally, after dopamine is released, it is recycled back into a dopamine transmitting neuron. However, cocaine binds to the dopamine, and does not allow it to be recycled. Thus there is a buildup of dopamine, and it floods certain neural areas (3). The flood ends after about 30 minutes, and the person is left yearning to feel as he or she once did (3). That is how the addiction begins. Progressively a tolerance builds up due to the fact that the person is constantly trying to repeat the feeling that he or she had the first time (2). However, the person cannot, because dopamine is also released when something pleasurable yet unexpected occurs (4). After the first time, the person expects the effect, thus less dopamine is released, and the experience is less satisfying. This principal is the foundation of why gambling releases dopamine. Several studies have been conducted which targeted neural response to rewards. The results were unanimous in the fact that when one performed an action over and over again, and was given a reward randomly, dopamine levels rose. If the reward was given consistently, i.e. every four time the action was performed, the dopamine levels remained constant. Finally, if no reward was given dopamine levels dropped (4). These same random rewards can be seen in gambling. Because the outcome is based on chance, one does not know prior if he or she will win. Therefore, if the person one wins, dopamine levels increase (4). However, unlike cocaine, gambling causes addiction in only 4% of participants. This is due to the fact that Cocaine’s chemical input is much more influential on dopamine levels than gambling’s behavioral input. Therefore, only people whose dopamine levels are low, become addicted to gambling (5). This brings up a very interesting topic of discussion. How do some people have lower dopamine levels than others? Is it genetic, environment related, something else, or a combination of factors? One study concluded that pathological gamblers most often experienced traumatizing experiences when … read more »

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Question:

Well, John, we’ve had this conversation before, but it is well known that ~ 1.0% of AEs are even reported. So a good place to start is Reporting, and docs need to do this.

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Docs need to report ABUSE as well.

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Matthew B. Smith, MD, I hope you rot in jail.

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Lenard Adler, MD, I hope you rot in jail. Since you and MB Smith were former private office mates, maybe you share the same jail ~ ? Collusion behind bars ~ !

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Dear FDA ~ I reported to the FBI. Perhaps you know them ~ ? See: Agent Carrie Robbins, NYC Office. My name is Virginia H. Hooper. I still live in New York City.

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FDA Report Details 25 ADHD Drug Deaths

Maybe the stuff’s finally gonna hit the fan now, with all the publicity. The fact that people were being told these drugs were safe is a national scandal. — Buy my book about school bullying here: http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended) http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411… http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559

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In other words, all that has been observed so far is that 25 out of the millions and millions of people who have been taking ADHD meds have died of causes that appear to be related to medical conditions that may be exacerbated by the ADHD meds.

It’s 25 too damn many. The FDA doesn’t claim any causal relationship, they admit that they don’t even have a way to research such an infrequently recurring phenomenon, there’s no indication whether that would be a death rate from those causes higher, lower, or the same as the general population, but the press, being the press and seeking a sensation, doesn’t emphasize this aspect, they instead bury it.

Yeah, I know, man, the American media is really, really, really against ADHD drugs – NOT! — Buy my book about school bullying here: http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended) http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411… http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559

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Maybe so, but I would have died from my cocaine addiction if it weren’t for Strattera.  If it’s harmful, it’s still better.

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FDA Report Details 25 ADHD Drug Deaths By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer Thu Feb 9, 3:42 AM ET http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_he_me/attention_deficit;_yl…

<full text of press release snipped The key paragraph here I think is: "The FDA has asked its Drug Safety and Risk Management advisory committee to discuss the feasibility of different ways of studying whether the deaths are linked to use of the drugs, as well as specific ways of conducting such studies." In other words, all that has been observed so far is that 25 out of the millions and millions of people who have been taking ADHD meds have died of causes that appear to be related to medical conditions that may be exacerbated by the ADHD meds. The FDA doesn’t claim any causal relationship, they admit that they don’t even have a way to research such an infrequently recurring phenomenon, there’s no indication whether that would be a death rate from those causes higher, lower, or the same as the general population, but the press, being the press and seeking a sensation, doesn’t emphasize this aspect, they instead bury it. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

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FDA Report Details 25 ADHD Drug Deaths By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer Thu Feb 9, 3:42 AM ET http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_he_me/attention_deficit;_yl… WASHINGTON – Twenty-five people died and 54 more suffered serious cardiovascular problems after taking drugs to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder between 1999 and 2003, the government says. Children accounted for 19 of the deaths and 26 of the cases of nonfatal cardiovascular problems, including heart attack, stroke, hypertension, palpitations and arrhythmia, according to a     Food and Drug Administration report released Wednesday. The FDA report also includes data on another 26 deaths between 1969 and 2003 in ADHD drug patients. Those include death by suicide, intentional overdose, drowning, heat stroke and from underlying disease. The report’s release came a day before an FDA panel was to discuss new ways of examining the potential cardiovascular risks of the drugs, which include amphetamines such as Adderall, and methylphenidates, sold as     Ritalin, Concerta, Methylin and Metadate. The few studies that have looked at longer-term use of ADHD drugs provide little information on those risks, the FDA said. The cardiovascular risks include heart attack, stroke, hypertension, palpitations and arrhythmia. Sales of drugs to treat ADHD have increased sharply in recent years, with use growing at a faster rate among adults than children, according to a recent study by Medco Health Solutions, a prescription benefit manager. Spending on ADHD drugs soared from $759 million in 2000 to $3.1 billion in 2004, according to IMS Health, a pharmaceutical information and consulting firm. Death and injury reports led the FDA’s Canadian counterpart, Health Canada, to yank the ADHD drug Adderall XR from the market for six months last year. A Canadian panel eventually concluded there was inadequate evidence of increased harm from Adderall XR compared with other available therapies, a conclusion the FDA also reached based on data on hand. The FDA review released Wednesday found fewer than one adverse event – that is, a death or serious injury – per 1 million ADHD drug prescriptions filled, with the sole exception of the 1.79 cases per million of nonfatal cardiovascular or cerebrovascular problems reported in adults treated with amphetamines. Also, in some of the cases, the children who died were later found to have had undiagnosed heart conditions. And in three of the five cases of death in adults receiving amphetamine treatment, the patients had pre-existing hypertension. That suggests hypertension "may be an important risk factor for sudden death in the adult population," the report said. However, the report noted, the rare occurrence of sudden death in children treated with drugs for ADHD "warrants close monitoring." One possibility would be to add labeling to the drugs that would recommend that doctors consider the benefits and risks of prescribing the drugs to patients with heart problems, the report concluded. Adderall is made by Shire Pharmaceuticals and Ritalin is made by Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corp. Various other companies make generic versions of Ritalin as well. The FDA has asked its Drug Safety and Risk Management advisory committee to discuss the feasibility of different ways of studying whether the deaths are linked to use of the drugs, as well as specific ways of conducting such studies. That earned the FDA a rebuke from Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, who contended such work should have already begun. In a letter sent Monday to acting FDA commissioner Dr. Andrew von Eschenbach, Grassley said in part, "I remain concerned that while both psychiatric and cardiovascular risk signals have cropped up across this class of drugs this past year, it appears that FDA is just now beginning to ‘discuss approaches’

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -v husk wrote:

NYC XYZ wrote: What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies? In what sense are they "equal"? They’re equal before the law as it is.  But this gay lobby wants to brainwash folks into thinking that their mutation or defect is not that but perfectly normal. Look up evolutionary biology. We are all here because of mutations/defects. Would you agree that we are, therefore, all unnormal or unnatural? If so then, then homosexuality is just as "unnormal" as brown hair, a tongue that can be rolled, etc. So what’s your beef?

Many years ago I read of some experimental findings in which some mice in a cage would begin to show homosexual tendencies when the population of the cage rose above a certain number. I don’t know if this has been replicated at all. I find it an interesting idea that evolutionary biology has built in homosexuality as a safeguard mechanism to prevent population growth depleting available resources. According to a former French Minister of Culture (I think it was) the incidence of homosexuality in the UK is currently 1 in 4 among males. If this is true, it would also seem to support the same idea, since the UK is an extremely overcrowded island. Not to mention prisons, which are by definition overcrowded and seem to contain a far higher than average incidence of homosexuality among inmates. What would be interesting to discover is the mechanism by which the homosexuality gene is "switched on" in individuals in cases where there is overpopulation and the threat of reduced resource allocation. Is it mediated by subjective perception? In this case, one would expect people to experience leanings towards homosexuality in situations where one is surrounded by large numbers of people and where resources are perceived to be scarce. A possible example of this might be in supermarket queues five minutes before closing. It might be interesting to conduct a study similar to the one quoted to find out whether people standing at the end of long queues feel more homosexually-inclined than those being promptly served in almost-empty stores. My guess would be that the results would be quite eloquent.

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Mobile Parakeet Gender Uncertainty Generator wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

v husk wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies? In what sense are they "equal"? They’re equal before the law as it is.  But this gay lobby wants to brainwash folks into thinking that their mutation or defect is not that but perfectly normal. Look up evolutionary biology. We are all here because of mutations/defects. Would you agree that we are, therefore, all unnormal or unnatural? If so then, then homosexuality is just as "unnormal" as brown hair, a tongue that can be rolled, etc. So what’s your beef? Many years ago I read of some experimental findings in which some mice in a cage would begin to show homosexual tendencies when the population of the cage rose above a certain number. I don’t know if this has been replicated at all. I find it an interesting idea that evolutionary biology has built in homosexuality as a safeguard mechanism to prevent population growth depleting available resources. According to a former French Minister of Culture (I think it was) the incidence of homosexuality in the UK is currently 1 in 4 among males. If this is true, it would also seem to support the same idea, since the UK is an extremely overcrowded island. Not to mention prisons, which are by definition overcrowded and seem to contain a far higher than average incidence of homosexuality among inmates. What would be interesting to discover is the mechanism by which the homosexuality gene is "switched on" in individuals in cases where there is overpopulation and the threat of reduced resource allocation. Is it mediated by subjective perception? In this case, one would expect people to experience leanings towards homosexuality in situations where one is surrounded by large numbers of people and where resources are perceived to be scarce. A possible example of this might be in supermarket queues five minutes before closing. It might be interesting to conduct a study similar to the one quoted to find out whether people standing at the end of long queues feel more homosexually-inclined than those being promptly served in almost-empty stores. My guess would be that the results would be quite eloquent.

That’s a very interesting point! I read something (can’t remember where) about the possibility that homosexuality benefitted the community by adding working hands without adding children also (which then require resources to raise).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -v husk wrote:

Mobile Parakeet Gender Uncertainty Generator wrote: v husk wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies? In what sense are they "equal"? They’re equal before the law as it is.  But this gay lobby wants to brainwash folks into thinking that their mutation or defect is not that but perfectly normal. Look up evolutionary biology. We are all here because of mutations/defects. Would you agree that we are, therefore, all unnormal or unnatural? If so then, then homosexuality is just as "unnormal" as brown hair, a tongue that can be rolled, etc. So what’s your beef? Many years ago I read of some experimental findings in which some mice in a cage would begin to show homosexual tendencies when the population of the cage rose above a certain number. I don’t know if this has been replicated at all. I find it an interesting idea that evolutionary biology has built in homosexuality as a safeguard mechanism to prevent population growth depleting available resources. According to a former French Minister of Culture (I think it was) the incidence of homosexuality in the UK is currently 1 in 4 among males. If this is true, it would also seem to support the same idea, since the UK is an extremely overcrowded island. Not to mention prisons, which are by definition overcrowded and seem to contain a far higher than average incidence of homosexuality among inmates. What would be interesting to discover is the mechanism by which the homosexuality gene is "switched on" in individuals in cases where there is overpopulation and the threat of reduced resource allocation. Is it mediated by subjective perception? In this case, one would expect people to experience leanings towards homosexuality in situations where one is surrounded by large numbers of people and where resources are perceived to be scarce. A possible example of this might be in supermarket queues five minutes before closing. It might be interesting to conduct a study similar to the one quoted to find out whether people standing at the end of long queues feel more homosexually-inclined than those being promptly served in almost-empty stores. My guess would be that the results would be quite eloquent. That’s a very interesting point!

It wasn’t meant to be. It was just an excuse to delight myself imagining volunteers’ penile circumference being measured while standing in supermarket queues (preferably this measurement would be taken by nubile female researchers in cute white coats, though this might prejudice the results to some degree.)

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I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you. Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW

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RonW wrote:

I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference.

College students are cheap and plentiful for this kind of research. -M

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"RonW" <rtw…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:a826dc4d0871dd93fe7540e4042fe5e6@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you. Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW

Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly?

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According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and

50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg

Correction.  Pure heterosexuality is a minority at one end of the scale and pure homosexuality is a minority at the other end of the scale. Ron, maybe because you’re a pure hetero, you are polarized with a pure homo?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Troll wrote:

"lisa" <ms_jade…@hotmail.com wrote in news:1135623546.211231.105910 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: Adams, H. E., L. W. Wright Jr. and B. A. Lohr, 1996.  Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?  _Journal of Abnormal Psychology_ 105(3): 440-445. Abstract: The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing. I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies! Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum.  According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg This "research" seems rather phony to me. Yes, there are people like the one in "american something" movie, but there are plenty of men who don’t like homos and don’t get excited by looking at gay porn.

You don’t like what the research shows because you’re a closet fag. No one could hate women as much as you do and be even close to being straight. ZenDog

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Troll wrote:

"lisa" <ms_jade…@hotmail.com wrote in news:1135623546.211231.105910 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: Adams, H. E., L. W. Wright Jr. and B. A. Lohr, 1996.  Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?  _Journal of Abnormal Psychology_ 105(3): 440-445. Abstract: The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing. I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies! Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum.  According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg This "research" seems rather phony to me. Yes, there are people like the one in "american something" movie, but there are plenty of men who don’t like homos and don’t get excited by looking at gay porn.

Not sure what movie you’re talking about, but here are excerpts from Kinsey’s studies. http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/research/ak-data.html#Scope

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The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively

heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

My cat’s breath smells like cat food.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Troll wrote:

"lisa" <ms_jade…@hotmail.com wrote in news:1135728745.216359.102930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Troll wrote: "lisa" <ms_jade…@hotmail.com wrote in news:1135623546.211231.105910 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: Adams, H. E., L. W. Wright Jr. and B. A. Lohr, 1996.  Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?  _Journal of Abnormal Psychology_ 105(3): 440-445. Abstract: The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing. I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies! Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum.  According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg This "research" seems rather phony to me. Yes, there are people like the one in "american something" movie, but there are plenty of men who don’t like homos and don’t get excited by looking at gay porn. Not sure what movie you’re talking about, but here are excerpts from Kinsey’s studies. http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/research/ak-data.html#Scope I think it was American Beauty. Anyway, wasn’t Kinsey a homo who wanted to make the idea of homosexuality more common due to his own homosexuality? I have read a few articles on this.

Kinsey wasn’t gay.  If anything he was bi.  Perhaps he was trying to make the idea of bisexuality acceptable for the population, or maybe he was self-centered.  I guess we’ll never know.

Response:

crfan wrote:

"Michaela Mackenzie" wrote Gee Deja Vu

Your deja is rather vu too. – Michaela

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -crfan wrote:

"Michaela Mackenzie" wrote crfan wrote: "RonW" wrote I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you. Dunno. IME gay people are often challenged by "black and white" people – it’s like they want to be the one to ‘make them gay’. There are other reasons why they may not have bothered with you – perhaps they perceived you as patronising them? Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly? Only if it turns out they all kicked their dogs. In this case however, I’m sure it’s only a metaphorical dog being kicked. – Michaela Metaphysical is more like it.

Petulant? – Michaela

Response:

"Michaela Mackenzie" <michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:1136792129.140337.30290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

crfan wrote: "RonW" wrote I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you. Dunno. IME gay people are often challenged by "black and white" people – it’s like they want to be the one to ‘make them gay’. There are other reasons why they may not have bothered with you – perhaps they perceived you as patronising them? Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly? Only if it turns out they all kicked their dogs. In this case however, I’m sure it’s only a metaphorical dog being kicked. – Michaela

Metaphysical is more like it.

Response:

"Michaela Mackenzie" <michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:1136792266.218527.27990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

not sure what’s happening here. sorry if reposting. crfan wrote: "RonW" wrote I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you. Dunno. IME gay people are often challenged by "black and white" people – it’s like they want to be the one to ‘make them gay’. There are other reasons why they may not have bothered with you – perhaps they perceived you as patronising them? Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly? Only if it turns out they all kicked their dogs. In this case however, I’m sure it’s only a metaphorical dog being kicked. – Michaela

Gee Deja Vu

Response:

not sure what’s happening here. sorry if reposting. crfan wrote:

"RonW" wrote I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you.

Dunno. IME gay people are often challenged by "black and white" people – it’s like they want to be the one to ‘make them gay’. There are other reasons why they may not have bothered with you – perhaps they perceived you as patronising them?

Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly?

Only if it turns out they all kicked their dogs. In this case however, I’m sure it’s only a metaphorical dog being kicked. – Michaela

Response:

crfan wrote:

"RonW" wrote I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you.

Dunno. IME gay people are often challenged by "black and white" people – it’s like they want to be the one to ‘make them gay’. There are other reasons why they may not have bothered with you – perhaps they perceived you as patronising them?

Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either. RW Would you ignore the entire hetero population if a straight guy treated you poorly?

Only if it turns out they all kicked their dogs. In this case however, I’m sure it’s only a metaphorical dog being kicked. – Michaela

Response:

lisa wrote:

I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing.

The funny thing is how when I use this logic to say that Hitler was Jewish so many people get offended.

I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies!

I hope that pig gets fucked by faggots.

Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum.

Freud used to say this, too, and Freud’s been discredited on many, many counts.

 According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg

Yeah, sure, which is why societies the world over are overwhelmingly hetero. This is why the gay lobby is so intensely hated by folks like me who normally don’t give a shit about faggotry.  All kinds of bullshit so that they can feel better about their abnormality.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -NYC XYZ wrote:

lisa wrote: I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing. The funny thing is how when I use this logic to say that Hitler was Jewish so many people get offended. I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies! I hope that pig gets fucked by faggots. Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum. Freud used to say this, too, and Freud’s been discredited on many, many counts.

Freud had his own issues, including cocaine addiction.  Perhaps Kinsey did too.  It doesn’t mean either or both reached invalid conclusions about gender orientation.

 According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg Yeah, sure, which is why societies the world over are overwhelmingly hetero.

Do you think it’s possible that most people are varying degrees of bisexuality, and either don’t act on it or keep it a secret for various reasons?  Do you believe that societies the world over are intolerant of non-heterosexuals?

This is why the gay lobby is so intensely hated by folks like me who normally don’t give a shit about faggotry.  All kinds of bullshit so that they can feel better about their abnormality.

What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies? rgds, lisa

Response:

lisa wrote:

Freud had his own issues, including cocaine addiction.  Perhaps Kinsey did too.  It doesn’t mean either or both reached invalid conclusions about gender orientation.

Sure, but by the same token, it doesn’t mean that simply ’cause they’re Freud or Kinsey that any given pronouncement of theirs on sex means anything at all.

Do you think it’s possible that most people are varying degrees of bisexuality, and either don’t act on it or keep it a secret for various reasons?  Do you believe that societies the world over are intolerant of non-heterosexuals?

I understand the argument, but you know, if it’s sex we’re talking about here — something so powerful and quite fundamental to our human being (that is, our being human) — do you think it’s possible to suppress this in the name of "society" if it’s actually so widespread as the gay lobby likes to proclaim? Try this thought-experiment: would it be possible for a society to be intolerant of eating food or drinking water?  How about wearing plaid, or denim?  Or, conversely, would it be possible for a society to, for whatever reason, promote cropophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, etc.? Why not? ‘Cause those are not natural urges in normal people, that’s why.  So if homosexuality/bisexuality is so nautral, how do you think it’s possible for so many societies to "suppress" them for so long?  Even ancient Greece, a homosexual paradise to hear the gay lobby tell it, wasn’t majority homosexual.

What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies?

In what sense are they "equal"? They’re equal before the law as it is.  But this gay lobby wants to brainwash folks into thinking that their mutation or defect is not that but perfectly normal.  Hence they got to go down that slippery slope of "everyone’s bisexual" (BTW, I guess you conveniently missed the latest research which showed that among its sample subjects of self-confessed bisexual men there was no such thing — they were either homo or hetero [this same study found evidence that women were susceptible to sexual arousal through either homo or hetero imagery, but that it was not because of the homo or hetero nature of the images but due to their broader sexual nature]…look it up; it came out this year).

rgds, lisa

I’ve personally been hit on by faggots and it’s the most disgusting feeling.  Like a little girl being propositioned by an old man, I imagine.  Just makes you want to punch ‘em in the face. See, no one is afraid of faggots.  It’s just pure disgust.  Like, geez, what kind of man are you?  It’s like with crazy people who like eating boogers or shit or all that other abnormal psychology stuff — I ain’t afraid of ‘em; just don’t want their company.  And in terms of society at large, the more scarce they make their lifestyles the better. Yeah, some of my best friends were homosexuals…and blacks, etc. Doesn’t mean I don’t call ‘em on their bullshit when it’s the time to do so.  I look at them as human beings first and foremost — but if they want to present themselves as stereotypes, if they want to make their homosexuality or race an issue, then fine, that’s how you want me to think of you, that’s how I’ll react to you. Needless to say, I don’t keep ‘em around anymore.  =)

Response:

RonW wrote:

I’m kind of wondering what kinds of people would actually go take tests like this?  Where there ‘monitoring’ penile circumference. From what I can tell, they’re psych students themselves (and often

students in general) and poor folks that could use the money.  A very few have no connection to psychology, nor need the money, and are simply very curious and have nothing better to do. Me, I almost participated in a study myself — was looking into parachuting this year, and a local outfit had some deal with a local college where you get to jump for free if you agreed to an overnight three-day study to monitor your body.

As for myself, I have had the privilege of having some gay acquaintances in my history.  And while they seemed to get along quite well with my wife and son, they tended to not really like me at all for whatever the reason. I’ve tried being nice, respectful, and polite – and in return I found I received rudeness in alot of cases.  I couldn’t figure out why either – I asked my wife why it is that this happens to me. She tends to believe that gay men can sense a person who is ‘black and white’ and then proceeded to tell me that I was B & K.  I felt like wtf? These guys are so pushy about getting people to accept them, and then when you try and do that, they turn their noses up at you.

A lot of them tend to be very educated, is all.  The more educated you are, the more snobbish you’ll wind up.  Me, I’m a people-person but I can’t help disliking folks who, for example, eat on trains and busses, or eat on the street, or yap on their cellphones or constantly check it (I dumped a beauty queen once just for that, and avoid my own sister, too, ’cause she’s forever smoking and checking her goddamned cellphone and putting our conversations on hold since someone somewhere is calling her up)…etc.

Moral of the story, I have since those days decided (and do) ignore the gay population. There’s no love loss between us either.

I don’t understand why they makes themselves such an issue.  It’s a disgusting lifestyle, but fuck it, let ‘em loose on their dogs in addition to their hamsters and gerbils if that’s what they like.  But why bring it to me?  It’s like the obnoxious spics and niggers who like blasting their shit all hours of the day and night. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

RW

Response:

<I don’t understand why they makes themselves such an issue.  It’s a disgusting lifestyle, but fuck it, let ‘em loose on their dogs in addition to their hamsters and gerbils if that’s what they like.

Well, its only disgusting when they’re in your face about it.  Honestly, I probably am like most people I think, where we really could care less what ‘they’ do on their own time. (Own time in this context means privacy of their own home.) I also think it goes beyond the educational theory you mentioned. Although, its true that over educated people sometimes can be hard to relate to – the gay community in my experience has their own little culture that the only way you can fit in is to either be gay, or female. Straight black and white thinkers – no matter how good our intentions are when it comes to accepting ‘them’ aren’t going to be accepted by them. I have a generally negative view of the gay community anyway so I’m not unwilling to admit that its possible some of those inner feelings come out in ‘bad vibes’ even during my attempts at politeness and respect. My experience: those involved in the gay community tend to be heavily involved in the various gay causes – gay rights.  Then theres the part I feel that gay (men mostly) are into this lifestyle strictly for the sex. (That part I choose to not think about.) And while I know our society frowns on gays, their constant ‘in your face’ approach is very unappealing.  Top it off with the rudeness and disrespect I mentioned, and I end up with an ‘I don’t give a damn about you or your cause’ attitude. And I don’t. RW  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -NYC XYZ wrote:

lisa wrote: Freud had his own issues, including cocaine addiction.  Perhaps Kinsey did too.  It doesn’t mean either or both reached invalid conclusions about gender orientation. Sure, but by the same token, it doesn’t mean that simply ’cause they’re Freud or Kinsey that any given pronouncement of theirs on sex means anything at all. Do you think it’s possible that most people are varying degrees of bisexuality, and either don’t act on it or keep it a secret for various reasons?  Do you believe that societies the world over are intolerant of non-heterosexuals? I understand the argument, but you know, if it’s sex we’re talking about here — something so powerful and quite fundamental to our human being (that is, our being human) — do you think it’s possible to suppress this in the name of "society" if it’s actually so widespread as the gay lobby likes to proclaim? Try this thought-experiment: would it be possible for a society to be intolerant of eating food or drinking water?  How about wearing plaid, or denim?  Or, conversely, would it be possible for a society to, for whatever reason, promote cropophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, etc.? Why not? ‘Cause those are not natural urges in normal people, that’s why.  So if homosexuality/bisexuality is so nautral, how do you think it’s possible for so many societies to "suppress" them for so long?  Even ancient Greece, a homosexual paradise to hear the gay lobby tell it, wasn’t majority homosexual. What are you afraid will happen if gays are treated as equal humans by all societies? In what sense are they "equal"? They’re equal before the law as it is.  But this gay lobby wants to brainwash folks into thinking that their mutation or defect is not that but perfectly normal.  

Look up evolutionary biology. We are all here because of mutations/defects. Would you agree that we are, therefore, all unnormal or unnatural? If so then, then homosexuality is just as "unnormal" as brown hair, a tongue that can be rolled, etc. So what’s your beef?

Hence they got to go down that slippery slope of "everyone’s bisexual" (BTW, I guess you conveniently missed the latest research which showed that among its sample subjects of self-confessed bisexual men there was no such thing — they were either homo or hetero [this same study found evidence that women were susceptible to sexual arousal through either homo or hetero imagery, but that it was not because of the homo or hetero nature of the images but due to their broader sexual nature]…look it up; it came out this year).

"Everyone’s bisexual" – no. But some people being bisexual – yes, definitely. Some people are attracted to people of both sexes, no matter how much you want to polarise them into gay/straight. Do you have a cite for this research you mention? The info you give isn’t enough to find it.

rgds, lisa I’ve personally been hit on by faggots and it’s the most disgusting feeling.   Like a little girl being propositioned by an old man, I imagine.  

Attempt to link homosexuality and paedophilia noted. Why on earth would it make you think of this? Admittedly, you’re acting like a little girl, but that’s as far as I can stretch the analogy. Your analogy has nothing to do with any (imagined) evil of homosexuality and everything to do with your own desire to villify gays.

Just makes you want to punch ‘em in the face.

Are you really in NY? Long way from redneck country.

See, no one is afraid of faggots.

Me thinkest thou dost protest too much. *You* are afraid of faggots.

It’s just pure disgust. Like, geez, what kind of man are you?  

Well, the kind that is attracted to the same sex I suppose. That seems to bother you. Why? Everyone I know who is secure in their own sexuality doesn’t give two flying hoots about a gay person fancying them or what they do with consenting adults. But then again, you’d rather seem to enjoy imagining gay people as being molesters of children. I wonder why? Why are you so interested in demonising gay people? What the hell have they done to you?

It’s like with crazy people who like eating boogers or shit or all that other abnormal psychology stuff — I ain’t afraid of ‘em; just don’t want their company.  And in terms of society at large, the more scarce they make their lifestyles the better.

They should just pretend they’re hetero and live their life as a lie, eh? Just to keep you happy.

Yeah, some of my best friends were homosexuals…and blacks, etc.

Oh dear. Why doesn’t this sound very convincing?

Doesn’t mean I don’t call ‘em on their bullshit

what "bullshit"?

when it’s the time to do so.  I look at them as human beings first and foremost —

<cough

bullshit</cough but if they want to present themselves as stereotypes, if they want to make their homosexuality or race an issue, then fine, that’s how you want me to think of you, that’s how I’ll react to you.

In what way do they make it an issue? By not being in the closet and protecting poor little you? By daring to be openly gay? And in what way would someone wanting you to think of them as gay (for instance) necessetate a (your) homophobic reaction? Remember, some people can actually handle the fact that people are gay (and openly so).

Needless to say, I don’t keep ‘em around anymore.  =)

Certainly seems like you’re afraid of them to me. Maybe you’re suppressing your own latent homosexual desires. There’s nothing wrong with being gay.

Response:

Adams, H. E., L. W. Wright Jr. and B. A. Lohr, 1996.  Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?  _Journal of Abnormal Psychology_ 105(3): 440-445. Abstract: The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Adams, H. E., L. W. Wright Jr. and B. A. Lohr, 1996.  Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?  _Journal of Abnormal Psychology_ 105(3): 440-445. Abstract: The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

I’m not at all surprised.  The more the homophobic tries to fight their attraction the angrier they get because they can’t get rid of it. Being unable to get rid of it internally they try to extinguish it externally — through gay bashing. I bet Jerry F*lwell takes his bath with a dozen purple teletubbies! Kinsey’s Scale says that most everybody is somewhere along the bi continuum.  According to his extensive research/surveys in the 40s and 50s, "pure" heterosexuality is a minority at either end of the scale. http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/images/kinsey_scale.jpg

Response:

Question:

((((((Vicki)))))) I am sorry you are still having a rough time with your son.  What does his GP say about what he’s going through? I will keep you and your son in my prayers… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to need all of you right now.  Things are tough.  I need as much support as I can get.  VOLUMES!!!  He is not showing typical panic disorder signs.  I know them, hello?  Suddenly he is one messed up kid and he says I gave this to him. Not buying it because I have seen his panic attacks.  They are not typical. He breathes fine, he can eat, drink.  Something is wrong, but I don’t think it’s panic.  He does shake all of the time but his dad did at that age and his dad’s brother, who is 42, still does.  That is most likely genetic. If anyone has suggestions or ideas, I am wide open.  Please, I need my friends right now. Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:

Question:

Welcome to our group, Steve! permanently into the ether: Hi All This is my first post here.

Nice to see new faces. I haven’t read much in here ether, just a little. I have been reading a lot in the alt.suicide group.

Uh oh.  I wouldn’t trust a word that was posted there.  It was one of the first groups I found.  Most of the posts were inaccurate, but most of the links worked better. Got a new Psychologist 2 weeks ago and a new psychiatrist Friday, she put me on 450 mg of lithium for a week then am going to 675 mg next week.

life side effects" Nancy Just knockin’ around the zoo. (James Taylor)

Response:

hi and thanks Nancy I have no idea why they are showing up three times when I post

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to our group, Steve! permanently into the ether: Hi All This is my first post here. Nice to see new faces. I haven’t read much in here ether, just a little. I have been reading a lot in the alt.suicide group. Uh oh.  I wouldn’t trust a word that was posted there.  It was one of the first groups I found.  Most of the posts were inaccurate, but most of the links worked better. Got a new Psychologist 2 weeks ago and a new psychiatrist Friday, she put me on 450 mg of lithium for a week then am going to 675 mg next week. Lithium – real life side effects" Nancy Just knockin’ around the zoo. (James Taylor)

Response:

Thanks for the reply Diane. I really haven’t read a lot about cobain, but I know that I have heard that from a lot of people that they had quit the meds so they could continue getting the highs, It would be nice if a person could turn it on and keep it on the high side. When I do get the high effects of it it is nice just like being high without taking anything, but I haven’t felt that way in a long time now and I don’t seem to be able to trigger it anymore. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome, Steve.  First, there is a very good chance that you will respons to lithium.  Many people who are bipolar are misdiagnosed as depressed, and treated with medications that simply are not effective against bipolarity. Bipolarity is a very "treatable" disorder.  There are people who don’t respond well to medications, but most are able to find a medication or combination of meds that control the moods.  Second, I have heard that Cobain was bipolar, and the reason he ended up killing himself was that he went off his medications because he felt that they were limiting his creativity.  For bp’ers who have significant "ups" as well as downs, this can be a real problem. The ups can be quite empowering, so they go off their meds because they want to experience the highs.  Then they end up crashing and burning.  Good luck with your treatment. Diane (moderator snipped excess quote due to length issues)

Response:

Welcome, Steve.  First, there is a very good chance that you will respons to lithium.  Many people who are bipolar are misdiagnosed as depressed, and treated with medications that simply are not effective against bipolarity. Bipolarity is a very "treatable" disorder.  There are people who don’t respond well to medications, but most are able to find a medication or combination of meds that control the moods.  Second, I have heard that Cobain was bipolar, and the reason he ended up killing himself was that he went off his medications because he felt that they were limiting his creativity.  For bp’ers who have significant "ups" as well as downs, this can be a real problem. The ups can be quite empowering, so they go off their meds because they want to experience the highs.  Then they end up crashing and burning.  Good luck with your treatment. Diane (moderator snipped excess quote due to length issues)

Response:

Hi All This is my first post here. I haven’t read much in here ether, just a little. I have been reading a lot in the alt.suicide group. Got a new Psychologist 2 weeks ago and a new psychiatrist Friday, she put me on 450 mg of lithium for a week then am going to 675 mg next week. The first pdoc that has tried this on me, I have tried almost every anti depression med there is, ohh am still taking wilibutrin (sorry to say I dont spell to well), she wanted me to keep taking that 300 mg a day. Ok this is the main reason why I am writing this, I want to know if there is relief in sight at all, I have been dealing with this bi-poler thing for years or probably my whole life, and have never had any doc come right out and say "ok that’s what you have", I have been to a few rather stupid doctors. now these docs im going to now are supposed to be really good ones before I was getting the ones that could get me in ASAP but found out the good ones might be the ones that take forever to get in to see. And these two sort of work together it seems, and where hard to get an appointment with, but still she never came right out and said I was bi-poler. She thinks that I am bi-poler. I think I have made a good step in the right direction though as I was at my wits end, it was getting to where I could not make it to work at all, taking off work 2 days a week. I would have tried anything to make myself feel better, if had known someone with crack or heroin I would have tried that. Drinking sure didn’t seem to help much, not unless I could quit work and just drink all the time, and im diabetic so I am not supposed to drink anyway. Something tells me that this lithium might really work. I am hoping so anyway I know that Curt Cobain wrote a song called Lithium also. dos anyone know if he was he bi-poler by chance? If he wasn’t I would be surprised, some of the songs he wrote had like all the feelings I feel at times. I try not to listen to any music these days though. Now if I had some nice opera music or some classical that might be allright. My daughter is 18 and she has to see a therapist already, I had no idea even what bi-poler was when I had knocked up my xwife or I would not have ever done that, I hate the fact that I have brought another person into this world that might have to suffer what I have had to suffer through. Sure when I was young there was some pleasure and happiness in my life but the past 5 years have been hell. And now I am not so sure that the happiness that I have had in my life equals out the with the unhappiness anymore. Sometimes when I am real depressed and can not sleep I lay there and sort of think of things that I might want to write in a book or in a journal, I never write anything the most I do is write a few emails, but I am thinking I should write a book, I have the name picked out all ready, I would call it "what the fuck is wrong with me". then later I can write the sequel and call it "what the fuck is wrong with you". Ok I am really just rambling now I should shut up, but please if someone can pray for me to make this lithium stuff work, I want to be normal. And this pain is killing me. I deserve to be happy, I never hurt anyone else and I don’t think I deserve this pain. I don’t blame it on anyone. well there is noone to blame really. And I know that there’s millions of people out there that have had this in the past when no one even knew what it was. Like my father, I really think he had it, and he self medicated with alcohol. My brother I think has it and he is drinking a lot also, and I mean a lot. he has been in detox probably 3 times that I know of. I count my blessings that I have been able to stay away from the drinking. I know that is bad. Now I also know if I had about a kilo of cocaine I could be happy for a while, of course I would be hooked to the gills by the time it ran out, but damn I want to be happy, I am thinking now that the cocaine addiction and having to kick it would be a diversion to the depression and I could actually be happier. Cocaine has been the only drug that actually ever really worked good for me but im sure that was only because by the time I was starting to get really hooked on it I lost the connection and could not buy anymore. the side effects where not all that bad, and when I went to work the next day I felt great, mainly because I knew that the faster I got the day over with I got to go home have a few lines. If anyone wants to be a friend and chat some I have an yahoo IM auctionmaster45, im not 45 im 41,, the auctionmaster45 is a totally different story how I got that handle in YIM. I am partial to chatting with women or anyone that can use a friend to chat with. And I am not on there all the time just sometimes so you can leave me an offline if you want to also. Cheers to you all. And I hope you all find happiness, and if you already have then I hope it stays with you forever. Stephen

Response:

Question:

You know, I thought the form then required the pilot to sign away his HIPPA rights.  Just looked back, it doesn’t.

It used to, but quite a few people refused to sign it, and the FAA had to grant them certificates anyway. One of the guys who refused happened to be a writer, and this got a certain amount of publicity. IIRC, his certificate was delayed for several months while they argued back and forth about it. I wasn’t aware the FAA had removed it from the form, though. Maybe there is some intelligent life out there? George Patterson      Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would        not yield to the tongue.

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http://makeashorterlink.com/?D22A12CB7 I seem to remember that this pilot had a cocaine problem that was not reported to either the FAA or to his employer. A judge had ordered his record sealed on the grounds that it might hurt his career. Whether his habit impaired his judgment in this case is still under investigation. You do have to wonder what he was thinking to allow the airplane to be loaded that way. OTOH this was probably the only job he could get. Getting fired might not have seemed a viable option to him.

Response:

Dear Julia, FAA Form 8500 asks in capital letters: 18. HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH, HAD, OR DO YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING? n. Substance dependence or failed a drug test ever, or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years. If the pilot in question checks this box "no" when he renews his medical, based what you have said in your message, he may be fined up to $250,000 or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. Moreover, if he is involved in an aircraft accident and the insurance company finds out about this, it is likely that his policy will be void, and no claims will be paid. This is because insurance policies require that a pilot have a valid medical in order for the policy to be in effect. Falsification of form 8500 will certainly void his medical certificate. –Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been assigned the task of finding out the consequences of a private pilot who voluntarily checks into drug rehab for assistance beating a cocaine addiction.  There have been no arrests, convictions or run-ins with the law of any kind.  Could any of you direct me to the regs (DOT/FAA regs? – sorry, I forget which, as I haven’t flown in years) or any other resources that definitively address this issue? I would like to have this info available when an intervention is conducted next week.  Thanks, Julia Ambrose

Response:

Further, and in spite of the position the FAA lawyers will obviously take, the HIPPA law makes your personal medical information your personal property… I am awaiting with interest when the first test case comes where the FAA takes certificate action against a pilot based on HIPPA protected information…

The medical renewal form SPECIFICALLY requires the applicant to report all such visits to medical professionals (especially for drug and mental problems, even if it is just counseling).   You know, I thought the form then required the pilot to sign away his HIPPA rights.  Just looked back, it doesn’t.  It authorizes release of driving records, but only attests that the medical information is correct.  Nothing about how it might be verified. James M. Knox TriSoft                        ph  512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane              fax 512-366-4331

Response:

I’ve been assigned the task of finding out the consequences of a private pilot who voluntarily checks into drug rehab for assistance beating a cocaine addiction.  There have been no arrests, convictions or run-ins with the law of any kind.  Could any of you direct me to the regs (DOT/FAA regs? – sorry, I forget which, as I haven’t flown in years) or any other resources that definitively address this issue? I would like to have this info available when an intervention is conducted next week.  Thanks, Julia Ambrose

Response:

If you want to get legal/technical, the regulatory language does not specify reporting of self treatment…  Based on what you say, no arrests/convictions and not formally hospitalized with a bodily illness that some insurance company has to pay for (paper trail), then what I always advise folks who seek my counsel: Do a Clinton… Don’t ask – Don’t tell – Pay your own bill… Further, and in spite of the position the FAA lawyers will obviously take, the HIPPA law makes your personal medical information your personal property… I am awaiting with interest when the first test case comes where the FAA takes certificate action against a pilot based on HIPPA protected information… Should be a hoot to watch all the way up to the Brethern… If I were a betting man, I would bet that the FAA will drop the case and reinstate the pilot at the appellate level since they know that their regs denying due process for pilots in the civil courts will not withstand a constitutional scrutiny by the high court… denny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been assigned the task of finding out the consequences of a private pilot who voluntarily checks into drug rehab for assistance beating a cocaine addiction.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

I love that show- and what a good idea, except that instead of a one night makeover, they’d almost ahve to follow the victim about for several months to see the improvement. Jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

 It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. I feel constrained to point out that cross-dressing  is nowhere near as serious and negative as the other things in your list.

Never said it was … this was a tongue-in-cheek list of thing that people keep secret, not necesarily a list of "serious" and "negative" things."  ;) That was my whole point — although Atkins isn’t a bad or negative thing, it’s been hidden and frowned on; until recently people have been embarrased to admit that they were on Atkins. Hmmmm, kinda takes the fun out of the joke when you have to explain it  … — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-)

LOL! Only us oldbies could appreciate your humor LOL!!!! I love it!!! ROFL Larry threw a big BBQ for all the people who worled for him thhis past summer. I made Potatoe Salad. Larry BBQ’ed the hmburgers and hotdogs and we had chips and cookies there. Out of like 15 of us 9 were LC’ing and all the carby stuff like buns, chips and salad went home with Connie the girl who assists Larry!!!!! No ne wants people to know they are on a diet but once one person in the crowd confesses the rest out of the woodwork. Its like a religion LOL So what diet do you practice???? We lw carbers knew as soon as Atkins died that he would be outed and people would admit he might have had a valid point here with the high protein diet. I giggle at the LC for the Fat Guy!! And PS I love Queer eye for the Straightguy and watched the marathon last night. Cheers! Laureen  414/348/200 LAuree 414/350/200

Response:

Why would anyone ask you about your diet when you’re still obese? — JC Lyle’s New Ultimate Diet "1. eat less you fat fuck 2. exercise more you fat fuck"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) LOL! Only us oldbies could appreciate your humor LOL!!!! I love it!!! ROFL Larry threw a big BBQ for all the people who worled for him thhis past summer. I made Potatoe Salad. Larry BBQ’ed the hmburgers and hotdogs and we had chips and cookies there. Out of like 15 of us 9 were LC’ing and all the carby stuff like buns, chips and salad went home with Connie the girl who assists Larry!!!!! No ne wants people to know they are on a diet but once one person in the crowd confesses the rest out of the woodwork. Its like a religion LOL So what diet do you practice???? We lw carbers knew as soon as Atkins died that he would be outed and people would admit he might have had a valid point here with the high protein diet. I giggle at the LC for the Fat Guy!! And PS I love Queer eye for the Straightguy and watched the marathon last night. Cheers! Laureen  414/348/200 LAuree 414/350/200

Response:

66 pounds would be a very noticable improvement, dont ya think? ~*~Pie~*~ 254/still 197/150 ~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why would anyone ask you about your diet when you’re still obese? — JC Lyle’s New Ultimate Diet "1. eat less you fat fuck 2. exercise more you fat fuck" When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) LOL! Only us oldbies could appreciate your humor LOL!!!! I love it!!! ROFL Larry threw a big BBQ for all the people who worled for him thhis past summer. I made Potatoe Salad. Larry BBQ’ed the hmburgers and hotdogs and we had chips and cookies there. Out of like 15 of us 9 were LC’ing and all the carby stuff like buns, chips and salad went home with Connie the girl who assists Larry!!!!! No ne wants people to know they are on a diet but once one person in the crowd confesses the rest out of the woodwork. Its like a religion LOL So what diet do you practice???? We lw carbers knew as soon as Atkins died that he would be outed and people would admit he might have had a valid point here with the high protein diet. I giggle at the LC for the Fat Guy!! And PS I love Queer eye for the Straightguy and watched the marathon last night. Cheers! Laureen  414/348/200 LAuree 414/350/200

Response:

Why would anyone ask you about your diet when you’re still obese?

If they’ve noticed that the person has lost a lot of weight. Or if the person makes a big fuss about food choices. Shirley to reply via e-mail remove the trees from my address

Response:

The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet! Including you, apparently? jake

Yes, I killfiled her after she advocated killing my relatives a few days ago.   Unfortunately when someone replies to a post and doesn’t crop the original, it’s hard to avoid seeing it sometimes. — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet! Including you, apparently? jake Yes, I killfiled her after she advocated killing my relatives a few days ago.   Unfortunately when someone replies to a post and doesn’t crop the original, it’s hard to avoid seeing it sometimes. — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

I understand.  Hyperbole is difficult to process, sometimes. Jake (who thinks you’re uptight) — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I  can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet! Including you, apparently? jake Yes, I killfiled her after she advocated killing my relatives a few days ago.  

I missed that post, but it sounds intriguing.  What was the subject header of the thread? –Bryan 198/155/155

Response:

You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV".

they don’t? :^)

Response:

i’ve never seen it, and i hope i never do

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I  can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet! Including you, apparently? jake Yes, I killfiled her after she advocated killing my relatives a few days ago.   I missed that post, but it sounds intriguing.  What was the subject header of the thread?

you missed it because it doesn’t exist.  mr. marengo is a bit hysterical because he didn’t like a joke that i made.  

Response:

Hey! I’ll hang my post here on the post marengo sent: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-)

Kinda hard to keep low-carb in the closet when one of the fast food chains in town is blabbing all over TV and radio about being able to order any sandwich on the menu as "protein style" (no bun, more veggies) I’m just waiting to see which chain is next to follow Spangle’s lead. — Stephen S. 331/314/220

Response:

Not when you weigh that much. BTW, I’m at 197 now, down from 235. — JC Lyle’s New Ultimate Diet "1. eat less you fat fuck 2. exercise more you fat fuck"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 66 pounds would be a very noticable improvement, dont ya think? ~*~Pie~*~ 254/still 197/150 ~ Why would anyone ask you about your diet when you’re still obese? — JC Lyle’s New Ultimate Diet "1. eat less you fat fuck 2. exercise more you fat fuck" When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) LOL! Only us oldbies could appreciate your humor LOL!!!! I love it!!! ROFL Larry threw a big BBQ for all the people who worled for him thhis past summer. I made Potatoe Salad. Larry BBQ’ed the hmburgers and hotdogs and we had chips and cookies there. Out of like 15 of us 9 were LC’ing and all the carby stuff like buns, chips and salad went home with Connie the girl who assists Larry!!!!! No ne wants people to know they are on a diet but once one person in the crowd confesses the rest out of the woodwork. Its like a religion LOL So what diet do you practice???? We lw carbers knew as soon as Atkins died that he would be outed and people would admit he might have had a valid point here with the high protein diet. I giggle at the LC for the Fat Guy!! And PS I love Queer eye for the Straightguy and watched the marathon last night. Cheers! Laureen  414/348/200 LAuree 414/350/200

Response:

 It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing.

I feel constrained to point out that cross-dressing  is nowhere near as serious and negative as the other things in your list. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.

That’s true.  Lately more people are open about it.  I frequently meet other happy LCers.  Maybe it’s just becoming more popular.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-)

NUKE REALITY TV!!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-)

LOL!  Post made me laugh this morning and I agree with ya.  I am no longer skeered to tell people I am LCing!  I am actually giving advice to newbies at work. Lynn

Response:

You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV". i’ve never seen it

Then you are in no position to judge it, IMHO.

Response:

You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV". i’ve never seen it Then you are in no position to judge it, IMHO.

i wasn’t judging it.  i was making an inside joke for someone other than yourself.  

Response:

You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV". i’ve never seen it Then you are in no position to judge it, IMHO.

The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet!

Response:

The Queen of Cans and Jars is a known bigoted, narrow-minded hater.  I can’t believe that there are still people who haven’t killfiled her yet!

Including you, apparently? jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) NUKE REALITY TV!!!! You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV".

i’ve never seen it, and i hope i never do

Response:

What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) NUKE REALITY TV!!!!

You know, in reality, a happy, funny gang of charming Gay guys normally don’t unite to teach a straight guy how to dress himself.  That’s what you call "fantasy TV".

Response:

When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

I prefer "Heat Wave Eye for the Old French Guy." — JC Lyle’s New Ultimate Diet "1. eat less you fat fuck 2. exercise more you fat fuck" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was doing some banking today, I found out that the teller is on a low-carb WOE.  Then she told me that the bank Manager as well as the Loan Officer are both on low carbohydrate diets!  I talked to them and swapped lc stories for quite a while; they were telling me about a lot of other business people in this small town who are doing lc also … an insurance broker;  a maintenance worker, etc.  It’s surreal to me because when I started Atkins three years ago it was anathema.  When someone was on a low-carb diet, it was right up there on the "top-ten-list-of-things-you-want-to-keep-secret" just ahead of  cocaine addiction, child molestation, wife beating, embezzlement and cross-dressing. But with all the positive publicity in the past few months, Atkins has seemingly been "outed" and is becoming mainstream.  What’s next — a TV show entitled "Low-Carb Eye For The Fat Guy?"  ;-) — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve Chaney, aka Mister Gunnykins

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve Chaney, aka Mister Gunnykins

Question:

u273681…@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net  (Silent Observer) wrote in message news:<l.1054939562.1676300048@[63.166.120.27]

… ACK! Math attack!! *ducking* OK you wanna play dirty Virgo, the following was an article my boss wrote for an industry newsletter. He claimed that it took him a while to figure it out with "quadratic equations" and "triple integrals." See if you can find the numbers

** Once upon a time in a faraway land where one’s wealth was ** measured in terms of his livestock, an old man lay on his ** deathbed surrounded by his three sons.  The man said, ** "Before I pass on, I must divide my wealth amongst the ** three of you," whereupon his eldest son asked how he was ** going to divide the 17 camels by three?  Being wise, the ** man gave it some thought and after a while instructed the ** youngest son to go to the neighbor’s and borrow a donkey. ** The son obediently did as he was told and returned with the ** donkey a bit later.  The man then bequeathed that of the 18 ** animals, one-half would go to the eldest, one-third to the ** middle son, and one-ninth to the youngest son, making it a ** total of 17.  His last words were to order the youngest son ** to return the donkey to the neighbor. *scratches his head* What I want to know is what quadratic equations and triple integrals have to do with this! Observation #1 — Neither has anything to do with this problem. Observation #2 — You boss knows nothing about them, as mentioning both together is like saying you needed to "know the alphabet" and "have read a couple of novels". I mean, just about anyone going to college has seen quadratic equations (the next step up from linear equations, and linear equations appear on a lot of high school exit exams) since they show up by algebra II (and probably in non-rural and non-inner city schools, in algebra I [middle school at a lot of schools now]), whereas triple integrals don’t show up until the 3′rd semester of calculus! [I realize he could have been saying this to lead you into thinking the problem is a lot deeper than it first appears. But even so, my "Observation #2" still seems valid.] *scratches his head again* As for the puzzle, I’m wondering if this is one of those things that you won’t see if you know *too much*, because I’m not sure what the problem is. The fractional parts of 18 are correct and the fractions add to less than 1 (indeed, they add to 1/18 less than one, so there will be one animal left over). So we’ve written 17 as 17 = 9 + 6 + 2. I guess there might be a problem if someone thinks 9/18, 6/18, and 2/18 are going to be the same as 9/17, 6/17, and 2/17. Virgo Cluster   "[10 Famous Drug Addicts] (#5) Sigmund Feud: cocaine addiction." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 234

Response:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Virgo Cluster wrote:

-

-

** Once upon a time in a faraway land where one’s wealth was

-

** measured in terms of his livestock, an old man lay on his

-

** deathbed surrounded by his three sons.  The man said,

-

** "Before I pass on, I must divide my wealth amongst the

-

** three of you," whereupon his eldest son asked how he was

-

** going to divide the 17 camels by three?  Being wise, the

-

** man gave it some thought and after a while instructed the

-

** youngest son to go to the neighbor’s and borrow a donkey.

-

** The son obediently did as he was told and returned with the

-

** donkey a bit later.  The man then bequeathed that of the 18

-

** animals, one-half would go to the eldest, one-third to the

-

** middle son, and one-ninth to the youngest son, making it a

-

** total of 17.  His last words were to order the youngest son

-

** to return the donkey to the neighbor.

-

-

*scratches his head*

-

-

What I want to know is what quadratic equations and triple

-

integrals have to do with this! Observation #1 — Neither has

-

anything to do with this problem. Observation #2 — You boss

-

knows nothing about them, as mentioning both together is like

-

saying you needed to "know the alphabet" and "have read a couple

-

of novels". I mean, just about anyone going to college has seen

-

quadratic equations (the next step up from linear equations, and

-

linear equations appear on a lot of high school exit exams) since

-

they show up by algebra II (and probably in non-rural and non-inner

-

city schools, in algebra I [middle school at a lot of schools now]),

-

whereas triple integrals don’t show up until the 3′rd semester of

-

calculus! [I realize he could have been saying this to lead you

-

into thinking the problem is a lot deeper than it first appears.

-

But even so, my "Observation #2" still seems valid.]

Maybe because x1/2 X y1/3 X z1/9 = 18 he thought it meant "triple integer"? I can’t speak for him, but truthfully he’s an engineer. So there ya go -

-

*scratches his head again*

-

-

As for the puzzle, I’m wondering if this is one of those things

-

that you won’t see if you know *too much*, because I’m not sure

-

what the problem is. The fractional parts of 18 are correct and

-

the fractions add to less than 1 (indeed, they add to 1/18 less

-

than one, so there will be one animal left over). So we’ve written

-

17 as 17 = 9 + 6 + 2. I guess there might be a problem if someone

-

thinks 9/18, 6/18, and 2/18 are going to be the same as 9/17,

-

6/17, and 2/17.

You got it, oldest son had 9, second son had 6, and the youngest had 1. Minus the donkey. -

-

Virgo Cluster

-

-

 "[10 Famous Drug Addicts] (#5) Sigmund Feud: cocaine addiction."

That explains his sex mania… … S.O. "You find it happens all the time love will never do what you want it to why can’t this crazy love be mine" –"It’s Not Unusual" Tom Jones ~ Remove my Shy Genes to reply ~

Response:

"My ex was a venn diagram" <nothetr…@nothetruth.com

wrote in message

news:450ldvs636ftqp6j8tk7j5jg9uraunpebs@4ax.com…

sexism pure sand simple women are discouraged from science and math beginning in late elementary

to

middle school. You showed them though. you stuck with it to 12th grade!

(or

longer i don’t know if you went on in college or not)

I don’t think that’s true anymore, for the most part.  There will always be exceptions.  Certainly I never saw any, for my part.

Response:

Serendipity wrote to us on June 3rd 2003:

Oh, yea I should make that clear- I had no social life in college, I was an outcast like always. I stayed in my room every night. I studied, went to the library, sometimes was in the art building doing assignments, and surfed the net- that was the extent of my activities.

Hello Serendipity, sorry that went badly for you. You DO know that "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" right?

Nobody wanted to be my roomate (I went through 3 in 2 years- they all couldn’t stand to live with me because I spent too much time in the room) Yea, it wasn’t a fun time- I don’t get why people say college is "the best years of your life" it’s bullshit. It was worse than high school- because I couldn’t escape.

I think college is "the best SEX of your life." High school have the best years because there’s that sense of comraderie, Homecoming, proms, which college doesn’t have.

I don’t think I would have enjoyed partying and stuff though- I am watching my sister do it, and she’s totally drunk 4 nights a week- and isn’t doing well in her classes. She has tons of friends, but all they do is watch movies and go to pubs. That just doesn’t sound like much fun to me to be quite honest.

Ew. Is your sister an alcoholic? Getting wasted every other day isn’t good for one’s health.

*Virgo Cluster* Hey, if you like math problems . . . a.s.s. math problem #1 (regular tetrahedron vertices problem) http://tinyurl.com/dcdx  [July 18, 2002]

(15 URLs snipped) ACK! Math attack!! *ducking* OK you wanna play dirty Virgo, the following was an article my boss wrote for an industry newsletter. He claimed that it took him a while to figure it out with "quadratic equations" and "triple integrals." See if you can find the numbers Once upon a time in a faraway land where one’s wealth was measured in terms of his livestock, an old man lay on his deathbed surrounded by his three sons.  The man said, "Before I pass on, I must divide my wealth amongst the three of you," whereupon his eldest son asked how he was going to divide the 17 camels by three?  Being wise, the man gave it some thought and after a while instructed the youngest son to go to the neighbor’s and borrow a donkey.  The son obediently did as he was told and returned with the donkey a bit later.  The man then bequeathed that of the 18 animals, one-half would go to the eldest, one-third to the middle son, and one-ninth to the youngest son, making it a total of 17.  His last words were to order the youngest son to return the donkey to the neighbor. << S.O. <–who won’t ask exactly what "mathematically molested" stands for — Sent by gli from hawaii  within area edu This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header. Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/new

Response:

gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0306030537.4ba4d075@posting.google.com

… ms_serendipit…@yahoo.com.au (Serendipity) wrote in message <news:58686543.0306021835.4eb9eae@posting.google.com… Ha, that’s said eh? Instead of partying and socialising at uni- I was concerned with solving math problems! Careful! By phrasing it in a way that suggests you might have had a choice in whether you could party and socialize, you’re going to draw the wrath of all those who felt shunned and ostracized by others in college.

Oh, yea I should make that clear- I had no social life in college, I was an outcast like always. I stayed in my room every night. I studied, went to the library, sometimes was in the art building doing assignments, and surfed the net- that was the extent of my activities. Nobody wanted to be my roomate (I went through 3 in 2 years- they all couldn’t stand to live with me because I spent too much time in the room) Yea, it wasn’t a fun time- I don’t get why people say college is "the best years of your life" it’s bullshit. It was worse than high school- because I couldn’t escape. I don’t think I would have enjoyed partying and stuff though- I am watching my sister do it, and she’s totally drunk 4 nights a week- and isn’t doing well in her classes. She has tons of friends, but all they do is watch movies and go to pubs. That just doesn’t sound like much fun to me to be quite honest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hey, if you like math problems . . . a.s.s. math problem #1 (regular tetrahedron vertices problem) http://tinyurl.com/dcdx  [July 18, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dce0  [July 20, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dce5  [July 21, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #2 (a Ramsey problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceb  [August 12, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dced  [August 14, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcek  [August 15, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #3 (cube electrical resistance problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceo  [August 19, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dces  [August 22, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #4 (a "one question only" logic problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceu  [August 23, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcf1  [August 24, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcf6  [August 25, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #5 (problems involving exponents and logarithms) http://tinyurl.com/dcfa  [August   29, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcfi  [September 2, 2002] OT — a.s.s. math problem #6 (3 arithmetic/algebraic problems) http://tinyurl.com/dcg2 [September 5, 2002] OT – Zeno, super-tasks, Greek philosophy, and math paradoxes http://tinyurl.com/dcdt  [February 1, 2002] (Remarks on the Axiom of Choice.) http://tinyurl.com/csol  [February 7, 2003]

thanks!

Response:

ms_serendipit…@yahoo.com.au (Serendipity) wrote in message

<news:58686543.0306021835.4eb9eae@posting.google.com

… Ha, that’s said eh? Instead of partying and socialising at uni- I was concerned with solving math problems!

Careful! By phrasing it in a way that suggests you might have had a choice in whether you could party and socialize, you’re going to draw the wrath of all those who felt shunned and ostracized by others in college. Hey, if you like math problems . . . a.s.s. math problem #1 (regular tetrahedron vertices problem) http://tinyurl.com/dcdx  [July 18, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dce0  [July 20, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dce5  [July 21, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #2 (a Ramsey problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceb  [August 12, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dced  [August 14, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcek  [August 15, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #3 (cube electrical resistance problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceo  [August 19, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dces  [August 22, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #4 (a "one question only" logic problem) http://tinyurl.com/dceu  [August 23, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcf1  [August 24, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcf6  [August 25, 2002] a.s.s. math problem #5 (problems involving exponents and logarithms) http://tinyurl.com/dcfa  [August   29, 2002] http://tinyurl.com/dcfi  [September 2, 2002] OT — a.s.s. math problem #6 (3 arithmetic/algebraic problems) http://tinyurl.com/dcg2 [September 5, 2002] OT – Zeno, super-tasks, Greek philosophy, and math paradoxes http://tinyurl.com/dcdt  [February 1, 2002] (Remarks on the Axiom of Choice.) http://tinyurl.com/csol  [February 7, 2003] Virgo Cluster   "[12 Musical Bans] (#8) In 1968, Communist party leader Chairman    Mao Tse-Tung banned "The Sound of Music" in China because it was    a blatant example of capitalist pornography." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 129

Response:

Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant.

    I’ve heard (and used) the expression "inflicting algebra on an equation" but no mathematical molestation, sorry. Though in a way, maybe… I’m pretty good at doing math in my head so I can work out the change I need to give to a fast food person or whatever quite easily. But even though I know that, if the cost is $7.78, I can give them $10.03 and get back a fairly even $2.25, I feel stupid handing over $10.03 since maybe the other person can’t quite see that it works out nicely, so I just hand over $10 and get back a fistful of loose change. This really bugs me sometimes. I have way too many pennies hanging around. Grrr. That’s mathematical molestation to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com

… I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant.

I have I have! I remember in uni, every month a really difficult math question was posted up in the math building. Those used to taunt me- I had to figure them out. I lost hours of sleep figuiring out these things that some of the teachers couldn’t solve. Oh, every month I was tortured- I could never walk past the math building without thinking about it. grrrr, and all that work and stress for what? A few extra credits for a class I already had an A in? That to me was molestation- they took over my thoughts until they were solved. Ha, that’s said eh? Instead of partying and socialising at uni- I was concerned with solving math problems!

Response:

"Virgo Cluster" <gamma_n…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com…

Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested?

No, but thx for asking.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com

… I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. Virgo Cluster   "[10 Creative Applications for Formaldehyde] (#3) Damien Hirst’s    Turner Prize winning 1994 show at the Serpentine Gallery in    London featured his famous animal exhibits, including "Away from    the Flock", a lamb embalmed in a glass case. Previous works    include "Mother and Child Divided" comprising a dead cow, and    a cow’s head being devoured by maggots, a piece which had to be    replaced every 36 hours with a new head." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, pp. 348

Lack of math ability cuts many peoples dreams short. I can remember first year calculus. It was very bloody.

Response:

My ex was a venn diagram <nothetr…@nothetruth.com

wrote in message

news:450ldvs636ftqp6j8tk7j5jg9uraunpebs@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:29:17 -0500, "Jean Louise" <jeanlou…@aoli.com

wrote: > >Virgo Cluster <gamma_n…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> >news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com… > >> I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read > >> something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people > >> and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. > >> But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting > >> for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the > >> thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) > >> Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group > >> and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to > >> google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think > >> this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there > >> were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group > >> hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s > >> a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order > >> to remedy this dreadful situation. > >> Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t > >> really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if > >> you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough > >> for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my > >> occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might > >> give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the > >> need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. > >> Virgo Cluster > >I can think of five instances to do with math in grade school/ high school

that still irritate me (I’m 37 now). First, in eighth grade volunteers were asked for to become a math tutor

for

some of the younger grades. I volunteered but was not chosen (I have no

idea

why. I was probably too shy to ask why. And I really wanted to do that. ) Second, in eighth grade I won a math contest for my grade and had the

chance

to try for a $500 scholarship to a catholic high school. My dad wouldn’t

let

me continue on to the next test. When I asked him why he signed the slip

to

let me take the first test then, he said "I didn’t think you would

*win*."

He wanted me to go to the public high school, which I did. Third, in tenth grade I had geometry and had all A’s on every test and

every

homework assignment. We were given a "project" in which I put together a optical illusion type diagram made with parallelograms. My teacher gave

me a

"C" for this saying it "was not put together too well." I had spent hours putting it together and almost cried when I heard my grade. The next day

she

ammended the grade and made it a "B" saying on second thought a lot of

work

obviously went into making it. Still, that was the only B I ever got on a math assignment in my entire life. Fourth, in eleventh grade I missed a math team field trip because I

didn’t

have a permission slip signed. My teacher said I couldn’t go because the school couldn’t accept the responsibility in case anything happened. I

said

I would accept the responsibility myself, but of course minors don’t have any rights, lol. I almost cried on this one too. Fifth, in twelfth grade calculus I usually got 100-115% on tests after

the

curve was applied to the class. On one where I did really good, my (male) teacher said something like "that’s pretty good, for a girl." At the time

I

actually thought it was amusing, but I’m not sure how it was meant. It

was

an older, almost retired teacher. JL sexism pure sand simple women are discouraged from science and math beginning in late elementary

to

middle school. You showed them though. you stuck with it to 12th grade!

(or

longer i don’t know if you went on in college or not)

No, I tested out of math and never did take any at college. I think I was afraid I might not keep up my perfect A’s and I would lose my self-image of being a math "brain."  That was what most of my self-esteem was based on I think, sadly.

I think my teachers thought I was about fucking worthless. Maybe they

ddin’t

know what to do with me. fuck them fuck them all they were dead wrong

about my

abilities. Now I am older, I know they knew fucking nothing about me at

all. I

remember one moronic counseler telling me to find a nice stable 15k a year

job.

fuck that bitch! I ought to go over to my high school elist and write a

scathing

letter telling them to all fuck off! I will wait til next week thought

becaue

tomorrow horoscope said not to cross authority figures so I better just

kkep my

mouth shut and shut up on the first day of my new job tomorrow.

Hehe, the horoscope. I’m glad you believed in yourself. Good luck with the tech support job, Ms.Pants! JL

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:29:17 -0500, "Jean Louise" <jeanlou…@aoli.com

wrote: Virgo Cluster <gamma_n…@yahoo.com wrote in message news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com… I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. Virgo Cluster I can think of five instances to do with math in grade school/ high school that still irritate me (I’m 37 now). First, in eighth grade volunteers were asked for to become a math tutor for some of the younger grades. I volunteered but was not chosen (I have no idea why. I was probably too shy to ask why. And I really wanted to do that. ) Second, in eighth grade I won a math contest for my grade and had the chance to try for a $500 scholarship to a catholic high school. My dad wouldn’t let me continue on to the next test. When I asked him why he signed the slip to let me take the first test then, he said "I didn’t think you would *win*." He wanted me to go to the public high school, which I did. Third, in tenth grade I had geometry and had all A’s on every test and every homework assignment. We were given a "project" in which I put together a optical illusion type diagram made with parallelograms. My teacher gave me a "C" for this saying it "was not put together too well." I had spent hours putting it together and almost cried when I heard my grade. The next day she ammended the grade and made it a "B" saying on second thought a lot of work obviously went into making it. Still, that was the only B I ever got on a math assignment in my entire life. Fourth, in eleventh grade I missed a math team field trip because I didn’t have a permission slip signed. My teacher said I couldn’t go because the school couldn’t accept the responsibility in case anything happened. I said I would accept the responsibility myself, but of course minors don’t have any rights, lol. I almost cried on this one too. Fifth, in twelfth grade calculus I usually got 100-115% on tests after the curve was applied to the class. On one where I did really good, my (male) teacher said something like "that’s pretty good, for a girl." At the time I actually thought it was amusing, but I’m not sure how it was meant. It was an older, almost retired teacher. JL

sexism pure sand simple women are discouraged from science and math beginning in late elementary to middle school. You showed them though. you stuck with it to 12th grade! (or longer i don’t know if you went on in college or not) I think my teachers thought I was about fucking worthless. Maybe they ddin’t know what to do with me. fuck them fuck them all they were dead wrong about my abilities. Now I am older, I know they knew fucking nothing about me at all. I remember one moronic counseler telling me to find a nice stable 15k a year job. fuck that bitch! I ought to go over to my high school elist and write a scathing letter telling them to all fuck off! I will wait til next week thought becaue tomorrow horoscope said not to cross authority figures so I better just kkep my mouth shut and shut up on the first day of my new job tomorrow.

Response:

Virgo Cluster <gamma_n…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:dd95baf2.0306011025.1f5a3fad@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. Virgo Cluster

I can think of five instances to do with math in grade school/ high school that still irritate me (I’m 37 now). First, in eighth grade volunteers were asked for to become a math tutor for some of the younger grades. I volunteered but was not chosen (I have no idea why. I was probably too shy to ask why. And I really wanted to do that. ) Second, in eighth grade I won a math contest for my grade and had the chance to try for a $500 scholarship to a catholic high school. My dad wouldn’t let me continue on to the next test. When I asked him why he signed the slip to let me take the first test then, he said "I didn’t think you would *win*." He wanted me to go to the public high school, which I did. Third, in tenth grade I had geometry and had all A’s on every test and every homework assignment. We were given a "project" in which I put together a optical illusion type diagram made with parallelograms. My teacher gave me a "C" for this saying it "was not put together too well." I had spent hours putting it together and almost cried when I heard my grade. The next day she ammended the grade and made it a "B" saying on second thought a lot of work obviously went into making it. Still, that was the only B I ever got on a math assignment in my entire life. Fourth, in eleventh grade I missed a math team field trip because I didn’t have a permission slip signed. My teacher said I couldn’t go because the school couldn’t accept the responsibility in case anything happened. I said I would accept the responsibility myself, but of course minors don’t have any rights, lol. I almost cried on this one too. Fifth, in twelfth grade calculus I usually got 100-115% on tests after the curve was applied to the class. On one where I did really good, my (male) teacher said something like "that’s pretty good, for a girl." At the time I actually thought it was amusing, but I’m not sure how it was meant. It was an older, almost retired teacher. JL

Response:

On 1 Jun 2003 11:25:01 -0700, gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant.

Well, according to the dictionary, to molest is "to disturb, interfere with, or annoy". So to be "mathematically molested" would be to be disturbed, interfered with, or annoyed by something of a mathematical nature. Hm… well, sometimes I’ve been annoyed by especially long math problems… and there have been times when math homework has interfered with my TV viewing… mmm… oh, and there was the time when we were told in high school that we would get pie on Pi Day (March 14), but we didn’t… LOL. Speaking of math, I like this line: Life is complex: It consists of real and imaginary parts.  :-D — RK

Response:

I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation. Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. Virgo Cluster   "[10 Creative Applications for Formaldehyde] (#3) Damien Hirst’s    Turner Prize winning 1994 show at the Serpentine Gallery in    London featured his famous animal exhibits, including "Away from    the Flock", a lamb embalmed in a glass case. Previous works    include "Mother and Child Divided" comprising a dead cow, and    a cow’s head being devoured by maggots, a piece which had to be    replaced every 36 hours with a new head." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, pp. 348

Response:

On 1 Jun 2003 11:25:01 -0700, gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I haven’t started a thread in a while, and since I just read something interesting, I thought I’d toss it out to you people and see where it goes. (Does this mean I’m trolling? I don’t know. But I do think that I’ve fulfilled my quota of self-pity posting for the next few days with those last two posts of mine in the thread "Follow-up poll for guys".) Just now I was reading a post in a mathematics education group and the phrase "mathematically molested" came up. (Note to google-stalkers — this group is not google-archived.) I think this phrase is hilarious! I googled it and to my surprise there were no web page hits, no image hits, no google-archived group hits, no directory hits, and no news hits for this phrase. That’s a shame for such a neat phrase, and so this post is partly in order to remedy this dreadful situation.

no but I hace been spanked by a mean quadratik equationn. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Do you feel that you’ve ever been mathematically molested? I don’t really know what could fall under the umbrella of this term, so if you think you’ve been mathematically molested, that’s good enough for me! And don’t worry about what I might think because of my occupation — feel free to rant away. Besides, your replies might give me some useful material to work with the next time I feel the need to make a self-pity post or an angry rant. Virgo Cluster  "[10 Creative Applications for Formaldehyde] (#3) Damien Hirst’s   Turner Prize winning 1994 show at the Serpentine Gallery in   London featured his famous animal exhibits, including "Away from   the Flock", a lamb embalmed in a glass case. Previous works   include "Mother and Child Divided" comprising a dead cow, and   a cow’s head being devoured by maggots, a piece which had to be   replaced every 36 hours with a new head." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless   Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, pp. 348

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