Question:

Thanks Debby~ interesting reading! They are a very cute couple I think they are lucky to have each other!

I think so too! Debby

Response:

Thanks Debby~ interesting reading! They are a very cute couple I think they are lucky to have each other!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heavy Mettle Mom Ozzie and Harriet they definitely weren’t. Through the ’80s and early ’90s, she packed the big-haired rocker off to drug and alcohol rehab more than a dozen times. In 1989 she called police after he went on a drinking binge, wrapped his fingers around her throat and tried to strangle her. (She dropped the charges and he spent three months in rehab.) For her part, "I’d max out the credit card to get him mad," she admits. "But we’ve never given up. I shake my head at these people who get married for a few years, then say their careers are pulling them apart. Hey, you get married for life. You make it work." She certainly got Ozzy’s career clicking. He has sold more than 70 million solo albums; Ozzfest, dreamed up by Sharon in 1996, took in $24 million last year alone. (The couple’s estimated fortune: more than $50 million.) Then came The Osbournes — another brainstorm of Sharon’s that ended up on MTV after being rejected by FOX. After its March debut, the look at the loony-but-loving family sparked a media frenzy. As the typically bleepable Ozzy puts it, "I met the President, the Queen. So much f—ing wacky wild s— has happened." Ozzy and Sharon, who plan to renew their vows on her 50th birthday Oct. 9, are trying to view her diagnosis with similar calm. "I’ve always had a plan that I’d get sick before she did, that I’d die before she did. But my plan didn’t work out," says Ozzy. "She’s my soulmate. If anything did happen to her first, I wouldn’t get married again. Sharon and Ozzy, we’re a team." He pauses and adds, "Life has a way of kicking you in the nuts." Sharon insists they can weather the blow. "I always knew how precious and lucky it is to be alive, and now even more so," she says. "I have a million more things I’m going to do. And I’m not going anywhere." — SAMANTHA MILLER — TODD GOLD in Los Angeles — \ \ | /// //     \ \ | /////     \\~ ~////

Response:

Heavy Mettle Mom Ozzie and Harriet they definitely weren’t. Through the ’80s and early ’90s, she packed the big-haired rocker off to drug and alcohol rehab more than a dozen times. In 1989 she called police after he went on a drinking binge, wrapped his fingers around her throat and tried to strangle her. (She dropped the charges and he spent three months in rehab.) For her part, "I’d max out the credit card to get him mad," she admits. "But we’ve never given up. I shake my head at these people who get married for a few years, then say their careers are pulling them apart. Hey, you get married for life. You make it work." She certainly got Ozzy’s career clicking. He has sold more than 70 million solo albums; Ozzfest, dreamed up by Sharon in 1996, took in $24 million last year alone. (The couple’s estimated fortune: more than $50 million.) Then came The Osbournes — another brainstorm of Sharon’s that ended up on MTV after being rejected by FOX. After its March debut, the look at the loony-but-loving family sparked a media frenzy. As the typically bleepable Ozzy puts it, "I met the President, the Queen. So much f—ing wacky wild s— has happened." Ozzy and Sharon, who plan to renew their vows on her 50th birthday Oct. 9, are trying to view her diagnosis with similar calm. "I’ve always had a plan that I’d get sick before she did, that I’d die before she did. But my plan didn’t work out," says Ozzy. "She’s my soulmate. If anything did happen to her first, I wouldn’t get married again. Sharon and Ozzy, we’re a team." He pauses and adds, "Life has a way of kicking you in the nuts." Sharon insists they can weather the blow. "I always knew how precious and lucky it is to be alive, and now even more so," she says. "I have a million more things I’m going to do. And I’m not going anywhere." — SAMANTHA MILLER — TODD GOLD in Los Angeles — \ \ | /// //     \ \ | /////     \\~ ~////

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Question:

well.. will wonders never cease. hah, you have to love usenet. jean   I’m glad…that’s why it’s all there.   Good luck, and take care.     Yes, I remember.  Actually I’ve gotten a couple of *very* helpful bi-polar sites and mailing lists off your website!     Kc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -      —– Original Message —–       Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery       You’re welcome.  My daughter and I are both bi-polar.  I know how it is.         Liz,         I was just going thru the google archieves looking for something else and found this post from you to me.  Thank you for your kind words.         The drug and alcohol rehab went fairly smoothly.  It’s difficult living up in the Hollywood Hills.  The kids are wealthy, wild and have access to all kinds of nasty mild altering shit.  But by far, the most difficult situation for him to come to terms with is the bi-polar disorder.  Apparently a lot of bi-polar kids self-medicate with booze and drugs, not realizing that they are *not* crazy.    Lots of therapy and many meds later, he’s doing great!!         Thanks again for the kind words.         Kc         Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery I’m sorry about your kid having had a problem. I truly am. As a parent,  I know how agonizing it is to watch your child struggle.

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You’re welcome.  My daughter and I are both bi-polar.  I know how it is.   Liz,   I was just going thru the google archieves looking for something else and found this post from you to me.  Thank you for your kind words.   The drug and alcohol rehab went fairly smoothly.  It’s difficult living up in the Hollywood Hills.  The kids are wealthy, wild and have access to all kinds of nasty mild altering shit.  But by far, the most difficult situation for him to come to terms with is the bi-polar disorder.  Apparently a lot of bi-polar kids self-medicate with booze and drugs, not realizing that they are *not* crazy.    Lots of therapy and many meds later, he’s doing great!!   Thanks again for the kind words.   Kc   Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery I’m sorry about your kid having had a problem. I truly am. As a parent, I know how agonizing it is to watch your child struggle.

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I’m glad…that’s why it’s all there. Good luck, and take care.   Yes, I remember.  Actually I’ve gotten a couple of *very* helpful bi-polar sites and mailing lists off your website!   Kc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -    —– Original Message —–     Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery     You’re welcome.  My daughter and I are both bi-polar.  I know how it is.       Liz,       I was just going thru the google archieves looking for something else and found this post from you to me.  Thank you for your kind words.       The drug and alcohol rehab went fairly smoothly.  It’s difficult living up in the Hollywood Hills.  The kids are wealthy, wild and have access to all kinds of nasty mild altering shit.  But by far, the most difficult situation for him to come to terms with is the bi-polar disorder.  Apparently a lot of bi-polar kids self-medicate with booze and drugs, not realizing that they are *not* crazy.    Lots of therapy and many meds later, he’s doing great!!       Thanks again for the kind words.       Kc       Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery I’m sorry about your kid having had a problem. I truly am. As a parent,  I know how agonizing it is to watch your child struggle.

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Question:

This is a very important topic.  I too used to have a great work record. Then as the depression got worse I found I would quit a job after a year or so.  I’ve been on worker’s disability twice, and now I’m on SSI disability. It barely pays me enough.  I’m now looking for very part time work but having trouble thinking of anything I could stand doing for 10-15 hours per week.  I’d like to work with animals somehow.  I’ve also thought of temping because of the low commitment level.  Any job seems to stress me out, I have trouble dealing with all the bulls–t that goes on at most jobs. I was in the computer field and management and hope to get back into it someday when I’m doing better.  I’ve weighed the "be honest" vs. "make something up" options of what to see about my job gaps.  I’m still not sure what I’d say but I definitely know most people who hire are not interested in someone who has been sick and may be again.  I would probably lie and say I had cancer and was in remission before I would tell someone I had a mental illness.  I think there are very few people who really understand it and aren’t afraid of it. That’s my two cents.  I’m very interested in hearing what others do that have difficulty working.  Also, how many people here are on disability? Thanks, Jessica

Response:

I used to work for ten years as a Chemical Engineer before I couldn’t go on. I had been through 3 jobs in less than two years.  At the time I didn’t realize that I was going nuts from the depression.  I just knew that I couldn’t cope with the situations I was in. I was out of work for about 3 years before I got on SSDI (mostly thanks to a litlle money saved and VERY generous parents who understood the depression better than I did.)  I’m currently still on SSDI but through the miracle of meds I have worked a part time job for 5 months now.  I am a classromm assistant for developmentally disabled (retarded) adults in our county. I don’t feel the stress I once did and can leave this job at the office instead of bringing it home with me.  Lately it has been starting to burn out for me but I can still take it for now. Like others I keep thinking that something with animals would be nice.  I’ve applied for our sate vocational retraining for people with disabilities.  Maybe something with animals but then I still do need the mental stimuli and might like short term computer jobs(?). Whichever way I go it has to be better than where I was in the past.  I’ve been out of that business too long to be able to go back competently.

Response:

     OK, OK, I’ve got to respond to all of the posts re work and working with animals. (This is my first-ever post to any site). I’m an LCSW (diagnosed with dysthymia, and currently taking 40 mg. of Celexa; Prozac was GREAT for almost ten years, then the sexual dysfunction kicked in) who finally burned-out as a result of the massive amount of paperwork. Spending eight hours a day, five days a week listening to others problems was not an altogether healthy environment for me, either, although I was a very effective therapist. Anyway, after quitting, I decided (on a whim) to take a few horseback riding lessons. That was eight years ago; I now own my own horse, and work (at my own discretion) as a certified "Equine-Assisted Psychotherapist". Without going into the details of that, I want to point out that any kind of involvement with horses is highly therapeutic!!! First of all, it gets you outside, and into the fresh (hopefully country) air. Grooming the horses, cleaning the tack, stalls, and barn, repairing fences, etc. are all great exercise. Learning to communicate with a horse opens up all of your senses, but most especially your intuition, and will increase your sensitivity to the non-verbal signals of your fellow humans. Developing relationships with such large and powerful animals will greatly enhance your self-esteem and sel-confidence. Further, you will meet and develop friendships with a whole new "interest group", who are generally calm, easy-going, earthy, and sensitive people. Finally, just hanging out around the barn, with the smells of the horses, hay, leather, sweat, and manure, is deeply relaxing. Watching the sunset over a pasture full of horses is the most rewarding way that there could possibly be to end the day!        There are many ways to get involved. If you can’t afford riding lessons, you may be able to find work at a local horse-boarding facility, a racetrack, a breeding farm, etc., etc. Check the classifieds and the yellow pages—they are generally all looking for reliable, BASIC help—that means cleaning stalls, etc., but it’s a foot in the door, and from there the learning begins. Also, many areas have programs that use horses to rehabilitate the physically disabled. Check the North American Riding for the Handicapped Association website (NARHA.org ???) Positions are generally volunteer, but again, it’s a foot in the door, and a great way to learn and to "network" into the horse culture. My own area of equine-assisted psychotherapy is a new, but quickly growing field.      In any event, horses really are the way to go if you’re interested in working with animals! Good Luck!!!                   —Duke

Response:

I have to agree with that. I had a horse and did the horse show thing when I was young, and my mom has 2 horses. I wish I still had time for it (3 kids keep me busy). I used to exercise horses for a therapeutic riding program here in PA also (sometimes people would donate horses that were too wild for the kids to ride hehe) .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      OK, OK, I’ve got to respond to all of the posts re work and working with animals. (This is my first-ever post to any site). I’m an LCSW (diagnosed with dysthymia, and currently taking 40 mg. of Celexa; Prozac was GREAT for almost ten years, then the sexual dysfunction kicked in) who finally burned-out as a result of the massive amount of paperwork. Spending eight hours a day, five days a week listening to others problems was not an altogether healthy environment for me, either, although I was a very effective therapist. Anyway, after quitting, I decided (on a whim) to take a few horseback riding lessons. That was eight years ago; I now own my own horse, and work (at my own discretion) as a certified "Equine-Assisted Psychotherapist". Without going into the details of that, I want to point out that any kind of involvement with horses is highly therapeutic!!! First of all, it gets you outside, and into the fresh (hopefully country) air. Grooming the horses, cleaning the tack, stalls, and barn, repairing fences, etc. are all great exercise. Learning to communicate with a horse opens up all of your senses, but most especially your intuition, and will increase your sensitivity to the non-verbal signals of your fellow humans. Developing relationships with such large and powerful animals will greatly enhance your self-esteem and sel-confidence. Further, you will meet and develop friendships with a whole new "interest group", who are generally calm, easy-going, earthy, and sensitive people. Finally, just hanging out around the barn, with the smells of the horses, hay, leather, sweat, and manure, is deeply relaxing. Watching the sunset over a pasture full of horses is the most rewarding way that there could possibly be to end the day!        There are many ways to get involved. If you can’t afford riding lessons, you may be able to find work at a local horse-boarding facility, a racetrack, a breeding farm, etc., etc. Check the classifieds and the yellow pages—they are generally all looking for reliable, BASIC help—that means cleaning stalls, etc., but it’s a foot in the door, and from there the learning begins. Also, many areas have programs that use horses to rehabilitate the physically disabled. Check the North American Riding for the Handicapped Association website (NARHA.org ???) Positions are generally volunteer, but again, it’s a foot in the door, and a great way to learn and to "network" into the horse culture. My own area of equine-assisted psychotherapy is a new, but quickly growing field.      In any event, horses really are the way to go if you’re interested in working with animals! Good Luck!!!                   —Duke

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Wow!! Another "helping profession" person burn’t out. I don’t feel so lonely..maybe we can start a club I am an MSW who worked in drug and alcohol rehab for about 10 years. I am at a "stuck" point in my life right now. Just finding the energy to even want to bother looking for work is often horrid. Your story is quite powerful and inspirational. Thanks for sharing it! I am slowly getting some ideas, and seeing *some* light. My medication routine is not stable, but I have always had a very hard time with antidepressants. I do have many bipolar qualities, so generally, risperdal and lorazempam are the meds that keep me stable. I may look at adding a *very* small dose of an a.d., but otherwise, they cause many problems. They actually really flared up my dysphoric mania over the past 5-6 years. I only recently, thankfully, got treatment as bipolar. I still recall the first time I tried Prozac. I couldn’t stop crying for three days, and hated everything and everybody. Same with Zoloft, Effexor, Luvox, Celexa, etc…you name it. I’ve actually turned to music as a major part of my therapy. I’ve gotten into some of the deeper, serious artists, everything from Jewel, Sarah Mclachlan, and stuff like Enigma and Dellerium. I *actually* wouldn’t mind getting into practicing music therapy…as I think music is one of the most *powerful* healing forces in the world. Great to know I (or we) are far from alone! Take good care.. Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      OK, OK, I’ve got to respond to all of the posts re work and working with animals. (This is my first-ever post to any site). I’m an LCSW (diagnosed with dysthymia, and currently taking 40 mg. of Celexa; Prozac was GREAT for almost ten years, then the sexual dysfunction kicked in) who finally burned-out as a result of the massive amount of paperwork. Spending eight hours a day, five days a week listening to others problems was not an altogether healthy environment for me, either, although I was a very effective therapist. Anyway, after quitting, I decided (on a whim) to take a few horseback riding lessons. That was eight years ago; I now own my own horse, and work (at my own discretion) as a certified "Equine-Assisted Psychotherapist". Without going into the details of that, I want to point out that any kind of involvement with horses is highly therapeutic!!! First of all, it gets you outside, and into the fresh (hopefully country) air. Grooming the horses, cleaning the tack, stalls, and barn, repairing fences, etc. are all great exercise. Learning to communicate with a horse opens up all of your senses, but most especially your intuition, and will increase your sensitivity to the non-verbal signals of your fellow humans. Developing relationships with such large and powerful animals will greatly enhance your self-esteem and sel-confidence. Further, you will meet and develop friendships with a whole new "interest group", who are generally calm, easy-going, earthy, and sensitive people. Finally, just hanging out around the barn, with the smells of the horses, hay, leather, sweat, and manure, is deeply relaxing. Watching the sunset over a pasture full of horses is the most rewarding way that there could possibly be to end the day!        There are many ways to get involved. If you can’t afford riding lessons, you may be able to find work at a local horse-boarding facility, a racetrack, a breeding farm, etc., etc. Check the classifieds and the yellow pages—they are generally all looking for reliable, BASIC help—that means cleaning stalls, etc., but it’s a foot in the door, and from there the learning begins. Also, many areas have programs that use horses to rehabilitate the physically disabled. Check the North American Riding for the Handicapped Association website (NARHA.org ???) Positions are generally volunteer, but again, it’s a foot in the door, and a great way to learn and to "network" into the horse culture. My own area of equine-assisted psychotherapy is a new, but quickly growing field.      In any event, horses really are the way to go if you’re interested in working with animals! Good Luck!!!                   —Duke

Response:

ANother option, is to do some voluntary work.  That way, you can get a taster of what sort of things you want to try, without the commitement of actually working.  For example, perhaps the local animal welfare shelter needs some volunteers?  Give em a call! I do some voluntary work for the local park ranger service, which is quite good fun, chopping trees, building fences etc.  I’ll admit that the social aspect (talking to the other volunteers etc) is a bit scarey for someone like me with social phobia. WOuld you still be eligable for disability if you worked part time?  I know that here in the UK, you cannot, unless you can convice the social security that the work you are doing is for your benefit. regards brian

Response:

Jay—Thanks for your nice comments—they’re appreciated. Believe me, we are FAR from alone in re being "burnt-out" helping professionals!!! I personally know of literally dozens, in a variety of fields. This type of work can be a prescription for burn-out, by it’s very nature, as your own positive energy is constantly being given to others, of whom only a fairly small percentage actually work hard enough and progress enough to return that energy. Still, those few can make the work highly rewarding. Strong boundaries, and activities that are wholly unrelated to work, are essential if you’re going to avoid being dragged down yourself. Unfortunately, there’s little that can be done to overcome the burdens of administrative obligations, which seem to keep becoming more and more complex, instead of streamlined. My initial intake documentation, alone, ran some 35 pages in length!!! I personally think that Social Workers may have it the worst, due to ridiculously low pay, lack of professional respect, and generally working with the most intransigent of client populations. So, enough with the bad news. An MSW is actually a pretty transferable degree/education. I’ve found that more and more businesses (particularly pharmaceutical, health insurance, geriatric services, and other sales-type organizations) are actively seeking MSWs!!! They know you’re burnt-out, want better pay, and have the education/ intellect, and people/communication skills that they want.        Music has always been my major source of therapy, but I’m careful about what I listen to, as it always affects your mood, for better or worse. I tend to stick with upbeat rock, as well as some jazz. I’m also a major Bluegrass fan, and spend most of my summer weekends travelling to Bluegrass festivals. I do love Blues, but I can pretty easily find myself "over-relating", and getting dragged into that mindset—which is always a good time for me to go and saddle-up the horse for a long, hard ride in the fresh air!!!!                           —Duke

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Question:

If you are and addict/alcoholic and bipolar you might benefit from DRA meetings in your area. I find it very beneficial to meet other people who are struggling with mental illness and addiction. It is so hard to get balanced if both areas are not addressed. Your local mental health clinic may have a DRA schedule for your area. I attend AA meetings but it is very difficult to talk about mental illness in those meetings. I am posting this just to raise awareness about the help options out there. Thanks, Michael Before you buy.

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That should have been Dual Recovery Anonymous Before you buy.

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Mr. Jones, Do you know if there are any DRA meetings in Canada?  I have been sober for 4 1/2 years (ODAAT), and I have Bipolar Disorder.  I often find it hard to talk about mental health stuff in general AA meetings, and hard to talk about recovery issues in psychiatric or mood support groups, Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That should have been Dual Recovery Anonymous Before you buy.

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I am in California and I am not sure about other areas of the country. I suggest you call the local drug and alcohol rehab clinics and see if they have a schedule. You could also check the local mental health clinics. I am not sure which one would be more likely to have a schedule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. Jones, Do you know if there are any DRA meetings in Canada? I have been sober for 4 1/2 years (ODAAT), and I have Bipolar Disorder. I often find it hard to talk about mental health stuff in general AA meetings, and hard to talk about recovery issues in psychiatric or mood support groups, Brian That should have been Dual Recovery Anonymous Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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Question:

I am an addict,bi-polar ,and quite a few people in my 12 step group are on anti-depressants,and quite few more should think of going on them.I think the diseases of addiction and bi-polarism go together.Best wishes

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I think BPD has a tendency to seek out self-medicating behavior that can be addictive, Rx stability lessens the "seeking-out" behavior IMHO…

Hi CC, I am in total agreement with you. Just wanted to let you know that. How are you doing? Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

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 Hi,   I am a recovering addict as well as bi-polar, self medicated for a loooooonnnnngggg time, work a 12 step program and have been clean for almost 4 years, i know many other people in recovery who also are bi polar and on meds, I tried to do it without them…that did not work for me…If i can help at all, please let me know.. keep coming back, mary

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Dang.. yep.. addiction problems seem to go hand in hand with BP.  I was put on wellbutrin….and guess what I did.. abused it.  I abuse anything I get my hands on.  SO… recovery has been difficult.  I am still not out of the woods. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks

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I agree with you. I am in AA as well. I habe BP2Mixed, URC. .I think the diseases of addiction and bi-polarism go together. The statistics vary anywhere from 40% – 90% for mental illness disorders and addictions. Many people do have dual diagnoses. Unfortunately some of them do not receive the appropriate treartment <sigh.

A little bit of a broad statement, any stats to back that up? I don’t doubt that medication is nescesary for many, I also believe it to be quite probable that there are many mentally ILL people in the program, but 40 to 90% uhmm, I don’t know about that. I also think that much of the depression is alchool and drug induced, damm if years of abuse cant cause a little depression, nothing can

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Hi Midwest, How’ the weather? Welcome to ASDM and thank you for your post. A little bit of a broad statement, any stats to back that up?

Sure are…please check the addiction literature. One study showed 90% which, IMO is very high. I don’t doubt that medication is nescesary for many, I also believe it to be quite probable that there are many mentally ILL people in the program, but 40 to 90% uhmm, I don’t know about that.

That has been my experience. I came into AA in 1979..wstayed sober for 14 years. Many people were dually diagnosed. I also think that much of the depression is alchool and drug induced, damm if years of abuse cant cause a little depression, nothing can

What came first…the chicken or the egg/ I believe that there are people who self medicate their depression, Bp etc… I have seen this in my medical practice for a long time. No one can predict who will become an addict or alcoholic… butwe can look at family history. We do know that alcoholism tend to run in families. Armed with that knowledge we can make suggestions to those who may be potentially vulnerable. For example, my 28 year old daughter has never taken a drink because of me. However, my 24 year old son , IMO has a problem with alcohol. He drinks every night. I also believe he has BP because of his mood swings. I became a daily drunk, while unsuccessfullt trying to self medicate my untreated BP. I was incorrectly DX as having unipolar depression <sigh. A Medline search will produce the data you have asked for. I spend too much time reasearching medical problems as it is. I have an extensive data bank. Need to get more darn memory for my computer. Peace, — Reach beyond your grasp!

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will share experience, strenghth and hope for free to you from me anytime[:

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Yes, I am a recovered-ing alcoholic.  I am sure I blamed many of my symptoms on drinking.  On the other hand, I believe that drinking helped me survive for many years.  I also think I could be addicted to almost any sedating kinda substance such as codeine, morphine.  I noticed that immediately when I was prescribed any of those.  I’ve never had a benzo cuz I’m deathly afraid I would be hooked immediately!! take care, Amy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks

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Hi Theo, I am an addict,bi-polar ,and quite a few people in my 12 step group are on anti-depressants,and quite few more should think of going on them

I agree with you. I am in AA as well. I habe BP2Mixed, URC. .I think the diseases of addiction and bi-polarism go together.

The statistics vary anywhere from 40% – 90% for mental illness disorders and addictions. Many people do have dual diagnoses. Unfortunately some of them do not receive the appropriate treartment <sigh. How are you doing? Peace, — Reach beyond your grasp!

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I think BPD has a tendency to seek out self-medicating behavior that can be addictive, Rx stability lessens the "seeking-out" behavior IMHO… CC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks

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Yes I have had serious problems with alcohol.  Almost always smoked pot daily but been able to stay on maintenance amounts not out of control. Always liked hallucinogens…sure that is great for BP.  I think the severity of my last and worst episode where I almost went over the edge with the paranoia was linked to doing hallucinogens for 3 days straight in hot sun at this festival which happened to be my bottom to getting sober this time I am in recovery, 9 months.  First time I was on meds first then got sober to prove I didn’t need them and went off.  This time I got sober because I though it was the solution (to a hellish mixed state), only made it worse.  So now I am determined to stay sober and on meds…learned my lesson, don’t need to try that again. Aurora – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks Hi Trw, I am a student who has an associates degree in addictions counseling and work in a drug and alcohol rehab. I am currently working on my bachelors degree in social work to obtain my therapist license.  What I do know is that 95% of those who suffer from a psych illness such as depression, BP, or anxiety disorders and many more do suffer from some sort of addiction. I am very familiar with dual-diagnosis and can give you information on the subject if you are interested.  I am no expert by any means but I am in recovery from drugs and alcohol and I have BPD as well.  I have been sober for 4 years now. I drank and drugged heavily since I was 14 years old and I am now 34 so I do some about the subject. I am here if you would like to talk. Just remember you aren’t alone in this battle, there are many of us fighting both on a daily basis. Take Care Shadow

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Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks

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Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks

Hi again trw, I am a recovering drunk. Email me anytime my friend. We can TALK. Peace, — Reach beyond your grasp!

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Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD.

FWIW: There are some concurrent BP and substance abusers here, although I’m not one of them. (Maybe they’ll "speak up.") — IMPORTANT: Remove the edible part of the E-mail address before replying.

Response:

Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks Hi Trw,

I am a student who has an associates degree in addictions counseling and work in a drug and alcohol rehab. I am currently working on my bachelors degree in social work to obtain my therapist license.  What I do know is that 95% of those who suffer from a psych illness such as depression, BP, or anxiety disorders and many more do suffer from some sort of addiction. I am very familiar with dual-diagnosis and can give you information on the subject if you are interested.  I am no expert by any means but I am in recovery from drugs and alcohol and I have BPD as well.  I have been sober for 4 years now. I drank and drugged heavily since I was 14 years old and I am now 34 so I do some about the subject. I am here if you would like to talk. Just remember you aren’t alone in this battle, there are many of us fighting both on a daily basis. Take Care Shadow

Response:

I am in recovery.  First time I was on meds first then got sober to prove I didn’t need them and went off.  This time I got sober because I though it was the solution (to a hellish mixed state), only made it worse.  So now I am determined to stay sober and on meds…learned my lesson, don’t need to try that again. Aurora – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be offended but I would like to know if addictions of any kind play major role or act as an obstacle in your recovery from BPD. I  deal with both currently and have most of my 35+ years. thanks Hi Trw, I am a student who has an associates degree in addictions counseling and work in a drug and alcohol rehab. I am currently working on my bachelors degree in social work to obtain my therapist license.  What I do know is that 95% of those who suffer from a psych illness such as depression, BP, or anxiety disorders and many more do suffer from some sort of addiction. I am very familiar with dual-diagnosis and can give you information on the subject if you are interested.  I am no expert by any means but I am in recovery from drugs and alcohol and I have BPD as well.  I have been sober for 4 years now. I drank and drugged heavily since I was 14 years old and I am now 34 so I do some about the subject. I am here if you would like to talk. Just remember you aren’t alone in this battle, there are many of us fighting both on a daily basis. Take Care Shadow

Response:

Question:

S. K. Madoski (smado…@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote: : My theory is that for some reason there are a lot more : men on this earth than women, up to the ages of about 60 or 70.   [...] : PS-This theory also explains why girls can get away with playing their :     little deception/hard to get (or whatever they think they’re doing) :     games. I disagree with you. I’ve often been known to say, "There are no single women in San Jose. My friend says he saw some single women in San Francisco once, but the light was bad and I don’t believe him." But I’m joking. The real reasons for this are sociological. First of all, you’re an engineering student (I was a physics student, which is worse). Engineering appeals to men, and women who show an interest in engineering tend to be discouraged. This is not right, but it is. You spend most of your day in physics lectures and EE labs and you’re going to see a lot of guys. Then you go home and study, and you’re probably doing a lot of that. This is going to lead to thinking that the world is a monastery. It’s not true. And you’re not doing yourself any good by staying out of the game, but I don’t know that it’s all that feasible for you right now, given that you need to get a degree. There are things you can do, though: take a beginning guitar class, or an arts class. Spend some time outside of the college of engineering. There are lots of classes where the majority of students will be women. Henry B. Messenger             "Physics can be a very lonely business.  http://satanic.org/~cenobite   A lot of time you think you’re Feynman,                                 or you’re nobody."                                       – Scientific American

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ra…@telware.it wrote:

Hi J! I’m giving you a LOT of conforting hugs, at least if there are *timely*. Let’s see… after the appointment seem to be quite useless. Before are good. Even more effective *during* the whole thing, but a little dangerous too. More dangerous, not to say less effective, is to hug the dentist when he’s working. Were there around some pretty young girl assistants then I will be happy to hug them. Not sure that this works for you, either. Nothing remains but tickling, if hugs don’t make you smile. But laughing in that situation may be most dangerous of course. Some assorted hugs and a big <SMILE! Yours not-so-serious friend         Raffaele

    Hi!!  Good to see you here!  I can always count on you for smiles.  The dentist is a woman, so you would surely hug her. <laugh

 Maybe she will

smile too!  The appt. is over and I have survived.  It was easier than usual and I’m sure all the warm thoughts and hugs from this group are responsible.  Big Texas Hugs, J  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

HashiRoan wrote:

LadyJ, Ok, your dentist visit is over and done with! Now, was it so bad? I hope not. How are you feeling? h@shi   <

     Hi, darlin’.  It’s over. <sigh

 I came home, took a pill and

slept for four hours.  The tension I build before I even get there is a major "wipe out". <laugh

 It hurts a bit, still.  Good thing I

don’t have anyone needs kissing!  Not as bad, I think, because of all the support I received from people here.  You know how I am about "good thoughts". <smile

 Even the dentist thought I was better!!  No

lollipop, though.  Must be I wasn’t good enough. <laugh

 Hugs, J

—  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

jon wrote:

Take a deep breath and relax.  There that didn’t hurt so bad now did it… Well actually it probably did, but by now it’s too late to be fearful. It should be just about 8:30am your time now so this is just to let you know that I’m thinking of you and hoping that the pain isn’t as bad as you think it will be. <hugs jon

    Thank you, jon.  You and others were so sweet and supportive.  I am so grateful we have all found each other.  Hugs, : ) J  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Celebok wrote:

LadyJ3 wrote:     Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist appointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear, novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure soaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture.     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery J, I feel bad about not having read this until now–six hours after your supposed dentist appointment.  All I can say is, I wish I’d been here at the right moment, especially after all the encouraging words you’ve given me!  I hope things went much better than you were anticipating, and, well here’s a late hug to alleviate any resulting aftereffects! <HUG  :-) –Cmdr. Celebok

     Thank you, darlin’.  And, trust me, the hugs are most definitely welcome after the fact, too.  The release of all that tension build up can be as incapacitating as the event itself. <laugh

 No hugs are ever too

late. <smile

 Hugs, J

—  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

LadyJ3 <Lad…@pop3.concentric.net

wrote

:     I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret : government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physical : pain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I : would make up. :     Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist : appointment.  <painful details snipped for obvious reasons

: 8:30 am, plus 7, is 15:30 Amsterdam time: we will all be thinking about you, <<big hugs

to you now, and try not to think about it!  

By the way, I think you’d be a great secret agent: you’d charm their socks off, they would just stammer and blush, and forget what secrets they were supposed to get! Hugs, Caroline

Response:

LadyJ3 wrote:

    Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist appointment.  

I will likely be asleep — but I wish you luck anyway. ——————— "Let my machine talk to me. Let my machine talk to me. This is my world, and I am World Leader Pretend."

Response:

In the Year of Our Lord 21 May 1998 19:24:46 EDT, LadyJ3 <Lad…@pop3.concentric.net

didst speak thustly:     Thank you for the encouraging words.  I’ll try to remember. I think the hug helps more, though. I’m afraid this is a case where the pain of not going is worse than the pain of going.  <laugh  : ) J — May I Always Live          Where The Sky Is Open            Fences Are Not,              And The Spirit Walks.                           A Sioux Perspective

Yep, that’s the only way that I ever go to the dentist: when the pain of not going is worse than the pain of going! Last time, it was a simple cavity.  I refused to go, and I told my friends that I would rather let my teeth rot out then go back to the dentist.   Well, the pain *finally* got so bad, that I went.  The only problem was that I had let it go for so long that it required a root canal! The tooth had actually started to decay below the gum line. But you know, once I finally face the fear, it’s never quite that bad.  I mean, I *hate* needles.  It’s a real phobia with me.  (When I checked into drug and alcohol rehab, it took the nurse almost 2 hours to get a blood sample from me!) But still, the physical pain itself, is never as bad as I imagine it to be. So, I’m wishing you the best of luck.  Just think, once it’s over, you won’t have that pain anymore.   I don’t know if this helps, but you’ve been a reall friend to me, and I hope I can help a little bit. Tim twevlest…@lycosmail.com "Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose."                                            -Janis Joplin

Response:

LadyJ, Ok, your dentist visit is over and done with! Now, was it so bad? I hope not. How are you feeling? h@shi  

<

Response:

Dearest Michael: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You wrote…

 Imagine a cold winter night, as you lie before a warm, softly flickering  fireplace, with someone you love. Imagine his touch, as he lovingly  touches your cheek, as he holds you close to him, gazing deeply into  your eyes. Imagine the feel of his warm lips, as he tenderly kisses  your brow, your cheek, and then your soft lips. Imagine the warmth of  his breath, as he softly nuzzles the delicate skin of your neck, kissing,  as he slowly moves to your throat, just so he may taste the soft moans,  coming from deep within. Imagine the tenderness, and the caring in his  touch, and the building passion in his breath, as he slowly, but with  purpose, begins to move downward, kissing, teasing, tasting… Well,  LadyJ, you’re a big girl, I’m sure you can imagine the rest…

Boy, you know how to make going to the dentist an interesting experience. I used to have fantasies like that to get me through boring staff meetings at work, and people would ask me afterwards what I was smiling about when the CEO was going on about budget cuts and such… Teresa

Response:

LadyJ3 wrote:

    Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist appointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear, novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure soaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture.     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

J, I feel bad about not having read this until now–six hours after your supposed dentist appointment.  All I can say is, I wish I’d been here at the right moment, especially after all the encouraging words you’ve given me!  I hope things went much better than you were anticipating, and, well here’s a late hug to alleviate any resulting aftereffects!   <HUG

 :-)

–Cmdr. Celebok

Response:

Take a deep breath and relax.  There that didn’t hurt so bad now did it… Well actually it probably did, but by now it’s too late to be fearful. It should be just about 8:30am your time now so this is just to let you know that I’m thinking of you and hoping that the pain isn’t as bad as you think it will be. <hugs

jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -LadyJ3 wrote: >     I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret > government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physical > pain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I > would make up. >     Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist > appointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear, > novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure > soaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture. >     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have > a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you > could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right > now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept > comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

> — >  May I Always Live >           Where The Sky Is Open >             Fences Are Not, >               And The Spirit Walks. >                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

Hi J!
I’m giving you a LOT of conforting hugs, at least if there are *timely*.
Let’s see… after the appointment seem to be quite useless. Before are
good. Even more effective *during* the whole thing, but a little dangerous
too. More dangerous, not to say less effective, is to hug the dentist
when he’s working. Were there around some pretty young girl assistants
then I will be happy to hug them. Not sure that this works for you,
either.
Nothing remains but tickling, if hugs don’t make you smile. But laughing
in that situation may be most dangerous of course.
Some assorted hugs and a big <SMILE

!
Yours not-so-serious friend
   Raffaele
I’ve often

said that I would not make a very good secret

government agent.  If anyone

so much as threatened me with physical

pain, I would tell them everything I

know, and what I didn’t know, I

would make up.
 Tomorrow morning, at 8:30

am., Texas time, I have a dentist

appointment.  I am a coward.  I am

expecting to be feeling pain, fear,

novocaine needles, anxiety, terror,

novocaine needles, blood pressure

soaring to stroke levels….well, you get

the picture.

      If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to

have

a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right
now,

just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept

comforting hugs,

too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

—–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Maddogg wrote:

  Dear LadyJ,   You know dogg and I will be there with you, in spirit. I’m sure that   doesn’t help much, in the real world, but maybe my little suggestions   will…   Imagine someone you care for, is there with you, holding your hand,   softly stroking your hair, as you allow yourself to leave the fear, and   take your spirit, to a place of comfort.   Imagine a cold winter night, as you lie before a warm, softly flickering   fireplace, with someone you love. Imagine his touch, as he lovingly   touches your cheek, as he holds you close to him, gazing deeply into   your eyes. Imagine the feel of his warm lips, as he tenderly kisses   your brow, your cheek, and then your soft lips. Imagine the warmth of   his breath, as he softly nuzzles the delicate skin of your neck, kissing,   as he slowly moves to your throat, just so he may taste the soft moans,   coming from deep within. Imagine the tenderness, and the caring in his   touch, and the building passion in his breath, as he slowly, but with   purpose, begins to move downward, kissing, teasing, tasting… Well,   LadyJ, you’re a big girl, I’m sure you can imagine the rest…   I wish you the best, and I hope my suggestions help. That sort of thing   always worked for me… but the dentist couldn’t understand, why I always   had such a huge chubby, when I left his chair…                                Michael                                Maddogg (always worked for dogg too…) :-]~

    The hell with the dentist!! What is your address????? J  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

LadyJ wrote:

   I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physicalpain, I

would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I

would make up.  

Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist

appointment.  I am

a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear,

novocaine needles, anxiety,

terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure

soaring to stroke levels….well, you

get the picture.

   If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen

to have

a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts youcould

send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right

now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

Dear Lady J: Since I’m an hour ahead of you, I’ll be up and I’ll certainly be sending my bravest thoughts to you…..although when it comes to dentists, I’m afraid I right up there with you in the coward department.  Okay….let’s practice:  I am not afraid of that little ol’ needle….nor that little ol’ drill, although I do hate that vacuum thing they put in the mouth.  I know….it’s not working.  Just ask them for the nitrous oxide…you’ll never know the difference.  :-) Seriously, I will be thinking of you and sending you all the bravery I can muster for you.  And yes…you do have to go!! Hugs, Gina Time….don’t let it slip away. Raise your drinking glass, Here’s to yesterday………

Response:

LadyJ, Buck up, Li’l Trooper! I guess you didn’t see Good Morning America today. They did a feature on people like you. One dentist lets the patient have control over the tools he uses. They can push a button to make it all stop. Like I said…control. Having it helps fearful patients. So, communicate with your dentist. Tell him you’re a big wee-knee and that you’ll tell him to stop his work whenever it bothers ya. I’m sure he’ll try to make things easier on you and before you know it, you’ll be on your way home. …maybe you can wear some headphones and play some of your favorite melodies to calm down. Good luck, LadyJ. h@shi  

<

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim wrote:

In the Year of Our Lord 21 May 1998 19:24:46 EDT, LadyJ3 <Lad…@pop3.concentric.net didst speak thustly:     Thank you for the encouraging words.  I’ll try to remember. I think the hug helps more, though. I’m afraid this is a case where the pain of not going is worse than the pain of going.  <laugh  : ) J — May I Always Live          Where The Sky Is Open            Fences Are Not,              And The Spirit Walks.                           A Sioux Perspective Yep, that’s the only way that I ever go to the dentist: when the pain of not going is worse than the pain of going! Last time, it was a simple cavity.  I refused to go, and I told my friends that I would rather let my teeth rot out then go back to the dentist.   Well, the pain *finally* got so bad, that I went.  The only problem was that I had let it go for so long that it required a root canal! The tooth had actually started to decay below the gum line. But you know, once I finally face the fear, it’s never quite that bad.  I mean, I *hate* needles.  It’s a real phobia with me.  (When I checked into drug and alcohol rehab, it took the nurse almost 2 hours to get a blood sample from me!) But still, the physical pain itself, is never as bad as I imagine it to be. So, I’m wishing you the best of luck.  Just think, once it’s over, you won’t have that pain anymore.   I don’t know if this helps, but you’ve been a reall friend to me, and I hope I can help a little bit. Tim twevlest…@lycosmail.com "Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose."                                            -Janis Joplin

     It did help, Tim.  It helped me to remember that the needle isn’t truly as bad as I always think it’s going to be.  In my mind, that damn thing is a foot long and hurts like hell, but I guess it really isn’t. <smile

 I’ll try to keep that in

mind.  I’m going to make sure she gives me something for pain, too.  Then I can take that and go to sleep before the novocaine wears off. <laugh

        Thank, darlin’. Hugs, J —  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

  Dear LadyJ,   You know dogg and I will be there with you, in spirit. I’m sure that   doesn’t help much, in the real world, but maybe my little suggestions   will…   Imagine someone you care for, is there with you, holding your hand,   softly stroking your hair, as you allow yourself to leave the fear, and   take your spirit, to a place of comfort.   Imagine a cold winter night, as you lie before a warm, softly flickering   fireplace, with someone you love. Imagine his touch, as he lovingly   touches your cheek, as he holds you close to him, gazing deeply into   your eyes. Imagine the feel of his warm lips, as he tenderly kisses   your brow, your cheek, and then your soft lips. Imagine the warmth of   his breath, as he softly nuzzles the delicate skin of your neck, kissing,   as he slowly moves to your throat, just so he may taste the soft moans,   coming from deep within. Imagine the tenderness, and the caring in his   touch, and the building passion in his breath, as he slowly, but with   purpose, begins to move downward, kissing, teasing, tasting… Well,   LadyJ, you’re a big girl, I’m sure you can imagine the rest…   I wish you the best, and I hope my suggestions help. That sort of thing   always worked for me… but the dentist couldn’t understand, why I always   had such a huge chubby, when I left his chair…                                Michael                                Maddogg (always worked for dogg too…) :-]~ In article <3745DAD9.A4342…@pop3.concentric.net

, LadyJ3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Lad…@pop3.concentric.net

wrote:    I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physical pain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I would make up.    Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist appointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear, novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure soaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture.    If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Caroline wrote:

LadyJ3 <Lad…@pop3.concentric.net wrote :     I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret : government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physical : pain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I : would make up. :     Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist : appointment.  <painful details snipped for obvious reasons : 8:30 am, plus 7, is 15:30 Amsterdam time: we will all be thinking about you, <<big hugs to you now, and try not to think about it! By the way, I think you’d be a great secret agent: you’d charm their socks off, they would just stammer and blush, and forget what secrets they were supposed to get! Hugs, Caroline

     <laughing

Thank you, but I told you I’m a coward. I would forget to be

charming. I always remember an incident that happened to me.  I’m very good with weapons and I know exactly how to behave and what to do if in danger of being assulted.  Once, when leaving a convenience store, a panal van was parked close to my door.  Now, I do know that I’m supposed to go around and get in the passenger side.  But, it was broad daylight and I was lazy.     Just as I got to my door, the door of the van slid open and out jumped a guy with a bandanna round his head. I quickly glanced in the van, to see six more guys with matching bandannas.  Knowing everything I know and being armed, what did I do?  I looked him dead in the eye and said, "Oh, shit!"     He just laughed at me and said, "Don’t worry, beautiful, I’m not going to bother you, today."  I very politely said, "Thank You".  I drove away, hoping I wouldn’t see him another day.  You have to be able to use what you know.  I do keep telling myself that. <smile

 Thanks for the hugs,  : ) J

—  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

Hey!,         As a "starving student", I’m not sure what’s worse, not being able to afford the dentist, or having to go to one.  I’m new in this group, but after a quick glance over postings, I think I see the same trend here that I see everywhere else (bars, personals, etc…), about 10 lonely guys to every lonely lady.  My theory is that for some reason there are a lot more men on this earth than women, up to the ages of about 60 or 70.  Women have a significantly longer life expectancy worldwide, so of course, there’s more of them if you look at total population, but it’s just skewed by the older population groups.  I’m not sure why men are born at a quicker rate than women, but stats on the Census Bureau’s web page seem to back me up.  Either way, the ratio sure stinks in my engineering classes! Anyone else see this trend?  You could argue that guys are just more agressive I guess, but I don’t know, there’s some pretty interesting global stats if you have the patience to dig them up, and for that matter why would guys be sitting around writing to newsgroups if we were all so agressive (in seeking relationships).  whatever…..                                                 Steve PS-This theory also explains why girls can get away with playing their     little deception/hard to get (or whatever they think they’re doing)     games.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Reg Riddle wrote:

LadyJ wrote:    I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physicalpain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, Iwould make up. Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentistappointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear,novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressuresoaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture.    If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to havea moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts youcould send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery Dear Lady J: Since I’m an hour ahead of you, I’ll be up and I’ll certainly be sending my bravest thoughts to you…..although when it comes to dentists, I’m afraid I right up there with you in the coward department.  Okay….let’s practice:  I am not afraid of that little ol’ needle….nor that little ol’ drill, although I do hate that vacuum thing they put in the mouth.  I know….it’s not working.  Just ask them for the nitrous oxide…you’ll never know the difference.  :-) Seriously, I will be thinking of you and sending you all the bravery I can muster for you.  And yes…you do have to go!! Hugs, Gina Time….don’t let it slip away. Raise your drinking glass, Here’s to yesterday………

     Ohhhh, Gina.  Did you have to say, "drill"???  I forgot about the drill.  I was too busy thinking about the needles.  I’ve tried nitrous oxide.  I don’t think they put anything in there but air.  It never seems to help.  She said it was supposed to make it so I didn’t care so much.  I don’t know how many people she fools with that story, but I’m not one of them!! Hugs, J —  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HashiRoan wrote:

LadyJ, Buck up, Li’l Trooper! I guess you didn’t see Good Morning America today. They did a feature on people like you. One dentist lets the patient have control over the tools he uses. They can push a button to make it all stop. Like I said…control. Having it helps fearful patients. So, communicate with your dentist. Tell him you’re a big wee-knee and that you’ll tell him to stop his work whenever it bothers ya. I’m sure he’ll try to make things easier on you and before you know it, you’ll be on your way home. …maybe you can wear some headphones and play some of your favorite melodies to calm down. Good luck, LadyJ. h@shi   <

     Thanks, h@shi.  No, I don’t watch TV.  My dentist is a woman and she knows how I am.  She tells me to raise my left hand if I want her to stop.  She’s real nice. I hate her.  She’s a dentist.  Hugs, J —  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cenobite wrote:

LadyJ3 (Lad…@pop3.concentric.net) wrote: :     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have : a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you : could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right : now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept : comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery You got it. <big hug And you know how much I hate cliches? Well, you’re getting one anyway. Bravery isn’t not being afraid. It’s being afraid and going on anyway. Henry B. Messenger            "Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty  http://satanic.org/~cenobite  If your cup is full, may it be again."                                     – "Ripple", Robert Hunter

     Thank you for the encouraging words.  I’ll try to remember. I think the hug helps more, though. I’m afraid this is a case where the pain of not going is worse than the pain of going.  <laugh

 : ) J

—  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

    I’ve often said that I would not make a very good secret government agent.  If anyone so much as threatened me with physical pain, I would tell them everything I know, and what I didn’t know, I would make up.     Tomorrow morning, at 8:30 am., Texas time, I have a dentist appointment.  I am a coward.  I am expecting to be feeling pain, fear, novocaine needles, anxiety, terror, novocaine needles, blood pressure soaring to stroke levels….well, you get the picture.     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

—  May I Always Live           Where The Sky Is Open             Fences Are Not,               And The Spirit Walks.                            A Sioux Perspective

Response:

LadyJ3 (Lad…@pop3.concentric.net) wrote:

:     If any of you are awake somewhere at that time, and happen to have : a moment to think of me, I would appreciate any warm thoughts you : could send my way.  Since, I’m feeling very small and frightened right : now, just thinking about it, I would be most willing to accept : comforting hugs, too.  J  <who is sadly lacking in bravery

You got it. <big hug

And you know how much I hate cliches? Well, you’re getting one anyway. Bravery isn’t not being afraid. It’s being afraid and going on anyway. Henry B. Messenger            "Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty  http://satanic.org/~cenobite  If your cup is full, may it be again."                                     – "Ripple", Robert Hunter

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