Question:
A few things bother me about this. 1. What need is this filling? There are already cheap, safe, and tested medications available for ADHD/ADD. I understand that. For me, though, Kratom is working much better than Ritalin. With Ritalin, I began having "tics" (or at least they seemed like tics), and its effectiveness faded over time. In this regard, Kratom is working much better…for *me*.
Did it also work better than Adderall, Dexedrine, Wellbutrin, Strattera, Provigil, or any of the other medications that I have no doubt forgotten about? Ritalin is not the only medication used to treat ADHD you know. 2. Why on earth would anybody want to risk trying this stuff? It’s not regulated, it’s not proven safe, and god knows what it does to your body. The same "safety" statements you make about Kratom was make about Ephedra, which caused people to have heart attacks. Understood. I’m simply stating my experiences with it.
No, you aren’t. You are making a variety of claims for it that cannot possibly be based on your personal experience. If anyone is interested, they are free to explore it further before trying it. There is quite a bit of information available. 3. You have already admitted to abusing it for recreational use. I don’t think this speaks too well for your ethics. I think you’re jumping to conclusions here – it appears that you are assuming that I’m some sort of Kratom "junkie". I didn’t mean to come across like that. I should have anticipated your (and others) reactions better, and worded my original post a bit more defensively. Anyway – do you drink alcohol? Because that’s how I have used in the past – in social situations.
We are not trying to sell people alcohol as a treatment for a variety of disorders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Toby Regarding my website…if you have suggestions (short of removing it!) as to how I can more effectively communicate some of these issues, then tell me – I’m open to suggestions. If you could suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and consider this as an honest statement: From my perspective, I have "discovered" something that really helps my ADHD symptoms. There is anecdotal evidence that others have used it for similar purposes – although not specifically for ADHD. Note that I had to max out my credit cards in order to buy a large wholesale quantity of the stuff – I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t think that it had potential. And I certainly wouldn’t have done it if it hadn’t helped me. Of course, since I am selling the stuff, I understand that creates the appearance of a conflict of interest. And that is where, perhaps, I could have worded my original post better. Regards, Mike
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need someone to go like this, "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Vashti
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few things bother me about this. 1. What need is this filling? There are already cheap, safe, and tested medications available for ADHD/ADD. I understand that. For me, though, Kratom is working much better than Ritalin. With Ritalin, I began having "tics" (or at least they seemed like tics), and its effectiveness faded over time. In this regard, Kratom is working much better…for *me*. Did it also work better than Adderall, Dexedrine, Wellbutrin, Strattera, Provigil, or any of the other medications that I have no doubt forgotten about? Ritalin is not the only medication used to treat ADHD you know.
Oh, yes – for _me_ it has worked much better than Ritalin, Strattera, and Wellbutrin – those are the three that I have taken. 2. Why on earth would anybody want to risk trying this stuff? It’s not regulated, it’s not proven safe, and god knows what it does to your body. The same "safety" statements you make about Kratom was make about Ephedra, which caused people to have heart attacks. Understood. I’m simply stating my experiences with it. No, you aren’t. You are making a variety of claims for it that cannot possibly be based on your personal experience.
Like I said – read my website more closely. I have first-hand experience with using Kratom for ADHD, and that was my reason for posting here. The other "ideas" on my "uses & ideas" page are a collection of anecdotes that I have gathered. I very clearly state that there hasn’t been any medical research regarding the efficacy or safety of Kratom for any medical use. Is there anecdotal evidence? Yes. Is that enough reason for someone to try it? Well, that’s up to each individual. Look, I understand that you are skeptical. But could you at least consider the possibility that I am not intentionally trying to scam people? Perhaps I am a bit "over-exhuberant" over my new site – and perhaps a bit naive to think that posting here was a good idea. But consider what you might do, if you were in my shoes (but consider something that you personally would feel more comfortable selling.) The key difference is that you of course trust _yourself_, but you don’t trust _me_ (and I’m not saying that you should – I’m just trying to isolate what the real problems are here.) The simple truth is this – I personally do believe that Kratom has a lot of potential for ADHD, because of my own experiences with it, and what I’ve read about others. I believe it so much that I bought a large quantity of the stuff on credit, and built a website around it. And, consequently, I want to sell it and make a profit from it. These statements are the simple truth about how I feel. You can choose to not believe them, but you can’t refute them – you can’t refute a "feeling". Whether or not Kratom is of any real use for treating ADHD in other people – I agree that that is a debatable issue. And I am more than willing to accept constructive criticism about my website. Now, if you’re wondering why I keep posting and dragging this out, well let me just add – I also have OCD (before you ask – yes, I was diagnosed with it.) It "bothers" me to think that I have come across as untrustworthy. So, I’m kind of obsessing over it now, and want to try and prove that I’m not dishonest. I’m also a little too verbose at times. Oh – Kratom hasn’t helped my OCD at all, by the way 
Would it help if I sent you a free sample, shipping & all included? Regards, — Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone is interested, they are free to explore it further before trying it. There is quite a bit of information available. 3. You have already admitted to abusing it for recreational use. I don’t think this speaks too well for your ethics. I think you’re jumping to conclusions here – it appears that you are assuming that I’m some sort of Kratom "junkie". I didn’t mean to come across like that. I should have anticipated your (and others) reactions better, and worded my original post a bit more defensively. Anyway – do you drink alcohol? Because that’s how I have used in the past – in social situations. We are not trying to sell people alcohol as a treatment for a variety of disorders. Toby Regarding my website…if you have suggestions (short of removing it!) as to how I can more effectively communicate some of these issues, then tell me – I’m open to suggestions. If you could suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and consider this as an honest statement: From my perspective, I have "discovered" something that really helps my ADHD symptoms. There is anecdotal evidence that others have used it for similar purposes – although not specifically for ADHD. Note that I had to max out my credit cards in order to buy a large wholesale quantity of the stuff – I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t think that it had potential. And I certainly wouldn’t have done it if it hadn’t helped me. Of course, since I am selling the stuff, I understand that creates the appearance of a conflict of interest. And that is where, perhaps, I could have worded my original post better. Regards, Mike — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Not sure.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kinda looks like that green stuff that Meryl Streep snorted in Adaptation. What *was* that stuff? Was it made up?
Response:
If this stuff is so safe, then why is it "highly illegal to possess, cultivate, or sell in Thailand, with punishments equivalent to hard drugs such as heroin." – quoted directly from your website. By the way, in Thailand, possesion of Heroin can lead to the death penalty. Toby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
Response:
I wasn’t suggesting that you were scamming people. What I was asking is why anybody would just trust to take this stuff to see what it does. Yes, it may be effective in treating the symptoms of ADHD, but is it killing you in the process? The simple truth is, you don’t know and you are playing doctor. Also, your comparison between drinking alcohol and taking prescribed medicine is offending to me. By your own admission, you experiment with taking drugs, and are now passing that on to others. I don’t find this very ethical, as you are not a doctor. I don’t care how much personal experience you have with it. I don’t take Ritalin because my doctor has tried it and swears by it. I take it because it has been scientifically researched, tested and approved for treating symptoms of ADHD. What you are doing is the same as if I decided because Ritalin works for me, that I should be able to give it to friends of mine that have similar symptoms to see if it works for them. Besides from being illegal to do so, it would not be ethical, as I am not a doctor. Toby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few things bother me about this. 1. What need is this filling? There are already cheap, safe, and tested medications available for ADHD/ADD. I understand that. For me, though, Kratom is working much better than Ritalin. With Ritalin, I began having "tics" (or at least they seemed like tics), and its effectiveness faded over time. In this regard, Kratom is working much better…for *me*. Did it also work better than Adderall, Dexedrine, Wellbutrin, Strattera, Provigil, or any of the other medications that I have no doubt forgotten about? Ritalin is not the only medication used to treat ADHD you know. Oh, yes – for _me_ it has worked much better than Ritalin, Strattera, and Wellbutrin – those are the three that I have taken. 2. Why on earth would anybody want to risk trying this stuff? It’s not regulated, it’s not proven safe, and god knows what it does to your body. The same "safety" statements you make about Kratom was make about Ephedra, which caused people to have heart attacks. Understood. I’m simply stating my experiences with it. No, you aren’t. You are making a variety of claims for it that cannot possibly be based on your personal experience. Like I said – read my website more closely. I have first-hand experience with using Kratom for ADHD, and that was my reason for posting here. The other "ideas" on my "uses & ideas" page are a collection of anecdotes that I have gathered. I very clearly state that there hasn’t been any medical research regarding the efficacy or safety of Kratom for any medical use. Is there anecdotal evidence? Yes. Is that enough reason for someone to try it? Well, that’s up to each individual. Look, I understand that you are skeptical. But could you at least consider the possibility that I am not intentionally trying to scam people? Perhaps I am a bit "over-exhuberant" over my new site – and perhaps a bit naive to think that posting here was a good idea. But consider what you might do, if you were in my shoes (but consider something that you personally would feel more comfortable selling.) The key difference is that you of course trust _yourself_, but you don’t trust _me_ (and I’m not saying that you should – I’m just trying to isolate what the real problems are here.) The simple truth is this – I personally do believe that Kratom has a lot of potential for ADHD, because of my own experiences with it, and what I’ve read about others. I believe it so much that I bought a large quantity of the stuff on credit, and built a website around it. And, consequently, I want to sell it and make a profit from it. These statements are the simple truth about how I feel. You can choose to not believe them, but you can’t refute them – you can’t refute a "feeling". Whether or not Kratom is of any real use for treating ADHD in other people – I agree that that is a debatable issue. And I am more than willing to accept constructive criticism about my website. Now, if you’re wondering why I keep posting and dragging this out, well let me just add – I also have OCD (before you ask – yes, I was diagnosed with it.) It "bothers" me to think that I have come across as untrustworthy. So, I’m kind of obsessing over it now, and want to try and prove that I’m not dishonest. I’m also a little too verbose at times. Oh – Kratom hasn’t helped my OCD at all, by the way Would it help if I sent you a free sample, shipping & all included? Regards, — Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" If anyone is interested, they are free to explore it further before trying it. There is quite a bit of information available. 3. You have already admitted to abusing it for recreational use. I don’t think this speaks too well for your ethics. I think you’re jumping to conclusions here – it appears that you are assuming that I’m some sort of Kratom "junkie". I didn’t mean to come across like that. I should have anticipated your (and others) reactions better, and worded my original post a bit more defensively. Anyway – do you drink alcohol? Because that’s how I have used in the past – in social situations. We are not trying to sell people alcohol as a treatment for a variety of disorders. Toby Regarding my website…if you have suggestions (short of removing it!) as to how I can more effectively communicate some of these issues, then tell me – I’m open to suggestions. If you could suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and consider this as an honest statement: From my perspective, I have "discovered" something that really helps my ADHD symptoms. There is anecdotal evidence that others have used it for similar purposes – although not specifically for ADHD. Note that I had to max out my credit cards in order to buy a large wholesale quantity of the stuff – I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t think that it had potential. And I certainly wouldn’t have done it if it hadn’t helped me. Of course, since I am selling the stuff, I understand that creates the appearance of a conflict of interest. And that is where, perhaps, I could have worded my original post better. Regards, Mike — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
I need someone to go like this, "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kinda looks like that green stuff that Meryl Streep snorted in Adaptation. Toby Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
Response:
I need someone to go like this, "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Vashti
Response:
Kinda looks like that green stuff that Meryl Streep snorted in Adaptation.
What *was* that stuff? Was it made up?
Response:
A few things bother me about this. 1. What need is this filling? There are already cheap, safe, and tested medications available for ADHD/ADD.
I understand that. For me, though, Kratom is working much better than Ritalin. With Ritalin, I began having "tics" (or at least they seemed like tics), and its effectiveness faded over time. In this regard, Kratom is working much better…for *me*. 2. Why on earth would anybody want to risk trying this stuff? It’s not regulated, it’s not proven safe, and god knows what it does to your body. The same "safety" statements you make about Kratom was make about Ephedra, which caused people to have heart attacks.
Understood. I’m simply stating my experiences with it. If anyone is interested, they are free to explore it further before trying it. There is quite a bit of information available. 3. You have already admitted to abusing it for recreational use. I don’t think this speaks too well for your ethics.
I think you’re jumping to conclusions here – it appears that you are assuming that I’m some sort of Kratom "junkie". I didn’t mean to come across like that. I should have anticipated your (and others) reactions better, and worded my original post a bit more defensively. Anyway – do you drink alcohol? Because that’s how I have used in the past – in social situations. Toby
Regarding my website…if you have suggestions (short of removing it!) as to how I can more effectively communicate some of these issues, then tell me – I’m open to suggestions. If you could suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and consider this as an honest statement: From my perspective, I have "discovered" something that really helps my ADHD symptoms. There is anecdotal evidence that others have used it for similar purposes – although not specifically for ADHD. Note that I had to max out my credit cards in order to buy a large wholesale quantity of the stuff – I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t think that it had potential. And I certainly wouldn’t have done it if it hadn’t helped me. Of course, since I am selling the stuff, I understand that creates the appearance of a conflict of interest. And that is where, perhaps, I could have worded my original post better. Regards, Mike
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.(worthlessgarbage).com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? What do any of these questions have to do with anything? They were an "attempt" to try and understand what your point is. You’re dishonest, or a fool. You’re claiming to being able to help a serious medical condition without any meaningful evidence to be able to do so. Whoa, there, hoss. I’m neither disnhonest nor a fool. That remains to be seen. The fact that you have chosen to cross swords with John Palmer instead of retreating gracefully from the field while your gizzard remains in darkness suggests that you are indeed a fool.
No, I’m just obsessive. It bothers me that people think I’m being dishonest. On my website, I clearly state that the evidence is anecdotal. You may state it somewhere but if so it is not "clear". I remember a discussion with a professor at Georgia Tech one time who I felt had incorrectly graded a paper. He looked at again and said "Yes, all the facts are there but they are so well buried that you are praising with faint damn." Well, you seem to be doing much the same thing.
I don’t know – I thought I made it pretty clear, on almost every page on my site. But if you did in fact read the pages, then obviously I am mistaken, and I will try to correct that. You obviously don’t know anything about Kratom though – because there are many others that have noticed the same thing that I have. And we should believe this why?
The part about "many others have noticed the same thing" is something that an interested person can search on and find out for themselves, and then make their own judgement. I apologize for not saying that specifically, but please understand that it is difficult to put a disclaimer in every single sentence. All I am saying is that it really has helped me. Other people claim that vitamins and supplements help them. Why is this any different? I started to take John to task for this, but before I did I looked at your web site. So, _has_ it in fact improved your concentration, cured your depression, reduced your anxiety, cured your Heroin addiction, increased your sexual desire, gotten your penis hard and eliminated your premature ejaculation? And how is it that you are female and have a penis, anyway? Your Web site does claim that it does all those things, and you now say that you are saying _nothing_ other than that it helped _you_, so if that is the case then it must have done all those things for you, now, mustn’t it?
Hold on, now – that page you are referring to is my "uses & ideas" page. It sounds like you have read the headlines, but not the content. Will you look at this again more closely, and perhaps with a more "neutral" position? Granted, I am excited about the stuff & my web site, so I’m sure I see things differently than you. Anyway, my intention on that page is to give some ideas on Kratom’s _potential uses_ (which I say on that page), based on anecdotal evidence (which I also mention – several times in fact.) Regarding the anecdotal evidence – understand that I have done a lot of reading about the stuff, and you, I presume, have not. I need to include some specific references on my website, and I will add that in the future. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, if possession of it is a capital offense in Thailand then isn’t that a bit inconvenient for the physicians who are using it to treat opiate addiction in Thailand? You’re trying to make money off of this unproven remedy which either 1) does nothing (in which case it’s a complete scam) or 2) does something, but its effects and side effects have not been measured (in which case you’re still scamming folks, but you’re also using them as guinea pigs for an untested remedy) I am simply sharing my own experiences with Kratom. Have you even looked at my website? For example, my "warnings" page? I’m not twisting anyone’s arm here. So, it _did_ improve your female libido and got your penis hard as well?
See above. Would you feel differently if I were not selling the stuff? Is that the main issue? Then here are a couple of other places to buy Kratom: www.IamShaman.com www.SageWisdom.org Huh? What relevance does that have to the issue, which is that _you_ are selling it and making claims about it as well?
Well, my point that I was trying to make is that my belief in Kratom’s potential is greater than my desire to make money off of it. Please try not to have a field day on this sentence – I’m trying to describe my point in a nutshell without getting overly verbose. I truly am not trying to "scam" anyone. Unless you are. If it looks like a duck . . .
Granted – the burden of proof is on me… For you and anyone else that is interested, do a search on "kratom" and/or "mitragyna speciosa". There are even articles in PubMed, although most (if not all) of those are in regards to Kratom’s narcotic-like effects (seen at higher doses.) There are articles in PubMed on nerve gas. Does that mean that we should all consume it?
Again, I didn’t include enough "shields" in my statement. What I meant to say is that there has been a fair amount of research about this plant, at least some of which supports what I’m saying. In Thailand, people have consumed Kratom for centuries – they claim that it helps them to work harder. That evidence, although anecdotal, is at least well-documented. And of course the Thai government, being opposed to hard work, is now executing all those workers? Well, your web site _does_ say "It is highly illegal in Thailand, where it is treated in the same class as heroine and cocaine, the possession of which (above a certain quantity) is punishable by death", does it not?
Kratom – like Ritalin – can be abused. Because of this, the Thai government has made it illegal. By the way, it is not "heroine", it is "Heroin", a brand name.
Sorry about the misspelling! …snip… Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Ah, so you only lie to and scam adults. *THAT* makes it all better! (Note: the latter sentence was sarcasm) No, I am simply saying that because there haven’t been any major studies as to the safety and efficacy of long-term Kratom use, it should only be taken by adults – who, presumably, are mature enough to decide for themselves. Then you should simply refuse to sell it to anyone under 18.
I do refuse to sell it to anyone under 18! Look at my site again, on the "uses" page, and others. Note that the subject of my post in this group specifically states ADULT Attention Deficit Disorder. …snip… I wish we could simply meet and talk, so that I could (attempt to) prove to you that I am neither stupid nor am I lying. But since that is unlikely, what else can I say? How would "meeting and talking" have any different outcome? Perhaps you think that if you fast-talk someone that you have convinced them?
I’m definately … read more »
Response:
The ladies say my smegma is quite effective in the treatment of ADD. I invite you to try it. — MYTHOLOGY, n. The body of a primitive people’s beliefs concerning its origin, early history, heroes, deities and so forth, as distinguished from the true accounts which it invents later. -Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.(worthlessgarbage).com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? What do any of these questions have to do with anything? They were an "attempt" to try and understand what your point is. You’re dishonest, or a fool. You’re claiming to being able to help a serious medical condition without any meaningful evidence to be able to do so. Whoa, there, hoss. I’m neither disnhonest nor a fool.
That remains to be seen. The fact that you have chosen to cross swords with John Palmer instead of retreating gracefully from the field while your gizzard remains in darkness suggests that you are indeed a fool. On my website, I clearly state that the evidence is anecdotal.
You may state it somewhere but if so it is not "clear". I remember a discussion with a professor at Georgia Tech one time who I felt had incorrectly graded a paper. He looked at again and said "Yes, all the facts are there but they are so well buried that you are praising with faint damn." Well, you seem to be doing much the same thing. You obviously don’t know anything about Kratom though – because there are many others that have noticed the same thing that I have.
And we should believe this why? All I am saying is that it really has helped me. Other people claim that vitamins and supplements help them. Why is this any different?
I started to take John to task for this, but before I did I looked at your web site. So, _has_ it in fact improved your concentration, cured your depression, reduced your anxiety, cured your Heroin addiction, increased your sexual desire, gotten your penis hard and eliminated your premature ejaculation? And how is it that you are female and have a penis, anyway? Your Web site does claim that it does all those things, and you now say that you are saying _nothing_ other than that it helped _you_, so if that is the case then it must have done all those things for you, now, mustn’t it? By the way, if possession of it is a capital offense in Thailand then isn’t that a bit inconvenient for the physicians who are using it to treat opiate addiction in Thailand? You’re trying to make money off of this unproven remedy which either 1) does nothing (in which case it’s a complete scam) or 2) does something, but its effects and side effects have not been measured (in which case you’re still scamming folks, but you’re also using them as guinea pigs for an untested remedy) I am simply sharing my own experiences with Kratom. Have you even looked at my website? For example, my "warnings" page? I’m not twisting anyone’s arm here.
So, it _did_ improve your female libido and got your penis hard as well? Would you feel differently if I were not selling the stuff? Is that the main issue? Then here are a couple of other places to buy Kratom: www.IamShaman.com www.SageWisdom.org
Huh? What relevance does that have to the issue, which is that _you_ are selling it and making claims about it as well? I truly am not trying to "scam" anyone.
Unless you are. If it looks like a duck . . . For you and anyone else that is interested, do a search on "kratom" and/or "mitragyna speciosa". There are even articles in PubMed, although most (if not all) of those are in regards to Kratom’s narcotic-like effects (seen at higher doses.)
There are articles in PubMed on nerve gas. Does that mean that we should all consume it? In Thailand, people have consumed Kratom for centuries – they claim that it helps them to work harder. That evidence, although anecdotal, is at least well-documented.
And of course the Thai government, being opposed to hard work, is now executing all those workers? Well, your web site _does_ say "It is highly illegal in Thailand, where it is treated in the same class as heroine and cocaine, the possession of which (above a certain quantity) is punishable by death", does it not? By the way, it is not "heroine", it is "Heroin", a brand name. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Ah, so you only lie to and scam adults. *THAT* makes it all better! (Note: the latter sentence was sarcasm) No, I am simply saying that because there haven’t been any major studies as to the safety and efficacy of long-term Kratom use, it should only be taken by adults – who, presumably, are mature enough to decide for themselves.
Then you should simply refuse to sell it to anyone under 18. I am curious: are you unable to recognize how baseless your claims are? I haven’t made any "claims" that could be considered baseless. I have simply stated my own experiences. It DOES help ME. Scientifically, Kratom’s stimulant behavior at low doses is pretty well documented. Have there been any studies regarding its use for ADHD? No! And I clearly state that on my website!
Depends on how you define "baseless" I guess. Personally I find the basis for your claims to be very weak at best. If you had stuck to your _own_ experiences it would be one thing, but you are making claims that go beyond what you could have personally experienced. Because that would explain your lack of guilt; stupid people who don’t realize the damage they are doing have no reason to feel guilty. If you *are* able to recognize how baseless your claims are, however, you still haven’t answered the questions you’d "gladly" answer. I wish we could simply meet and talk, so that I could (attempt to) prove to you that I am neither stupid nor am I lying. But since that is unlikely, what else can I say?
How would "meeting and talking" have any different outcome? Perhaps you think that if you fast-talk someone that you have convinced them? Let me ask you – are you "one of those" that are just vehemently against taking drugs for ADHD?
Fascinating tactic there. Either one is for using any substance that any nutcake suggests or one "vehemently against taking drugs for ADHD"? While I don’t presume to speak for John perhaps you should consider that one may be in favor of the use of prescription medications and yet at the same time be opposed to the use of street substances the possession of which is a capital offense in their country of origin? Or did I just happen to push your "he’s a scammer" button? If it is the former, then there’s no point in discussing this any further – I’m sure you’re mind is already made up. If it is the latter – well, you’re mind is probably already made up about me, anyway. But I could probably prove to you that I am not a scammer – if that is your main concern.
So do so. Mike — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Marriage is about love, and the creation of family, and should be open to all. Legislators who haven’t learned this valuable lesson should stick to fingerpainting, and only be allowed to use the plastic scissors.
– –John … read more »
Response:
The ladies say my smegma is quite effective in the treatment of ADD. I invite you to try it.
I ain’t _never_ gonna get _that_ much Code Red off my monitor. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
A few things bother me about this. 1. What need is this filling? There are already cheap, safe, and tested medications available for ADHD/ADD. 2. Why on earth would anybody want to risk trying this stuff? It’s not regulated, it’s not proven safe, and god knows what it does to your body. The same "safety" statements you make about Kratom was make about Ephedra, which caused people to have heart attacks. 3. You have already admitted to abusing it for recreational use. I don’t think this speaks too well for your ethics. Toby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
Response:
Kinda looks like that green stuff that Meryl Streep snorted in Adaptation. Toby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" I find it highly suspicious that you claim to have "attention problems" and yet your first post here is an advertisement for snake oil. Leaves one wondering why you didn’t think to look for this newsgroup until you had something to sell. Well, actually, that’s not true. I have posted in this group a number of times in the past (including some comments about Strattera about a year ago.) I just simply prefer to keep the identities separate. But I really hate for people not to trust me, so if it would help you believe me, I’ll e-mail my other identity to you in private – if you wish. Good try though–at least you’re not claiming that it helped anybody but you. Well, thanks for giving me that much, at least. Now, what side effects does it have? Has it been tested for safety by anybody? How does it taste? On my website, I have tried to be as thorough as possible in relation to these questions. But, briefly: 1. As far as side-effects are concerned, the only negative one that I have encountered is…constipation.
I’d rather have information from a somewhat broader sample. On the basis of one Heroin was a real nice, powerful, nonaddictive pain-killer. Then they gave it to the second guy. I’m exaggerating, but Heroin was for a while use medically because on the basis of clinical trials with small samples it was believed to be less addictive than Morphine. One big problem that I had with Ritalin is that I started to develop tics; or at least they seemed like tics. Like constantly rubbing my toes in my shoes to try and get the wrinkles out of my socks. And, worst of all, something I can only describe as "manual breathing" – usually to the beat of music that’s stuck in my head. Also, for some reason the Ritalin LA (long acting) was worse in this regard than the regular (fast acting" Ritalin.
What does Ritalin have to do with anything? We were talking about your snake oil. 2. Regarding safety – no, it has not been tested for safety or efficacy for this or any other medical purpose. It has been used in Thailand for a very long time, though. Personally, I started taking it off-and-on in January (admittedly, for recreational purposes at higher doses – but I don’t do that anymore. It was a substitute for alcohol for me.) I’ve been taking it every day – slowly sipping it to stay within the "stimulant" range while at work – since early March.
So we don’t know if it’s safe or not, even for you. 3. By itself, it tastes pretty bad, especially if its highly-concentrated. I put honey & cinnamon in it, and that helps. I’m used to it now, though.
I have an aversion to things that taste bad, so even it if helped me I doubt I would be able to use it. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.(worthlessgarbage).com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? What do any of these questions have to do with anything?
They were an "attempt" to try and understand what your point is. You’re dishonest, or a fool. You’re claiming to being able to help a serious medical condition without any meaningful evidence to be able to do so.
Whoa, there, hoss. I’m neither disnhonest nor a fool. On my website, I clearly state that the evidence is anecdotal. You obviously don’t know anything about Kratom though – because there are many others that have noticed the same thing that I have. All I am saying is that it really has helped me. Other people claim that vitamins and supplements help them. Why is this any different? You’re trying to make money off of this unproven remedy which either 1) does nothing (in which case it’s a complete scam) or 2) does something, but its effects and side effects have not been measured (in which case you’re still scamming folks, but you’re also using them as guinea pigs for an untested remedy)
I am simply sharing my own experiences with Kratom. Have you even looked at my website? For example, my "warnings" page? I’m not twisting anyone’s arm here. Would you feel differently if I were not selling the stuff? Is that the main issue? Then here are a couple of other places to buy Kratom: www.IamShaman.com www.SageWisdom.org I truly am not trying to "scam" anyone. For you and anyone else that is interested, do a search on "kratom" and/or "mitragyna speciosa". There are even articles in PubMed, although most (if not all) of those are in regards to Kratom’s narcotic-like effects (seen at higher doses.) In Thailand, people have consumed Kratom for centuries – they claim that it helps them to work harder. That evidence, although anecdotal, is at least well-documented. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Ah, so you only lie to and scam adults. *THAT* makes it all better! (Note: the latter sentence was sarcasm)
No, I am simply saying that because there haven’t been any major studies as to the safety and efficacy of long-term Kratom use, it should only be taken by adults – who, presumably, are mature enough to decide for themselves. I am curious: are you unable to recognize how baseless your claims are?
I haven’t made any "claims" that could be considered baseless. I have simply stated my own experiences. It DOES help ME. Scientifically, Kratom’s stimulant behavior at low doses is pretty well documented. Have there been any studies regarding its use for ADHD? No! And I clearly state that on my website! Because that would explain your lack of guilt; stupid people who don’t realize the damage they are doing have no reason to feel guilty. If you *are* able to recognize how baseless your claims are, however, you still haven’t answered the questions you’d "gladly" answer.
I wish we could simply meet and talk, so that I could (attempt to) prove to you that I am neither stupid nor am I lying. But since that is unlikely, what else can I say? Let me ask you – are you "one of those" that are just vehemently against taking drugs for ADHD? Or did I just happen to push your "he’s a scammer" button? If it is the former, then there’s no point in discussing this any further – I’m sure you’re mind is already made up. If it is the latter – well, you’re mind is probably already made up about me, anyway. But I could probably prove to you that I am not a scammer – if that is your main concern. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Marriage is about love, and the creation of family, and should be open to all. Legislators who haven’t learned this valuable lesson should stick to fingerpainting, and only be allowed to use the plastic scissors.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.(worthlessgarbage).com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? What do any of these questions have to do with anything? They were an "attempt" to try and understand what your point is. You’re dishonest, or a fool. You’re claiming to being able to help a serious medical condition without any meaningful evidence to be able to do so. Whoa, there, hoss. I’m neither disnhonest nor a fool.
So far, available evidence indicates otherwise. On my website, I clearly state that the evidence is anecdotal.
So you’re trying to sell it, hoping someone will believe your claims, even though you know they’re worthless. That’s dishonesty. You thought you’d be able to snow people with dishonest, worthless claims. That shows you to be a fool. You obviously don’t know anything about Kratom though – because there are many others that have noticed the same thing that I have.
You obviously don’t know that assertions do not make an argument. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -All I am saying is that it really has helped me. Other people claim that vitamins and supplements help them. Why is this any different? You’re trying to make money off of this unproven remedy which either 1) does nothing (in which case it’s a complete scam) or 2) does something, but its effects and side effects have not been measured (in which case you’re still scamming folks, but you’re also using them as guinea pigs for an untested remedy) I am simply sharing my own experiences with Kratom. Have you even looked at my website? For example, my "warnings" page? I’m not twisting anyone’s arm here.
Did I *SAY* you were twisting arms? No. I said you were a dishonest fool who was trying to scam people, and possibly use them as guinea pigs. Don’t put words in my mouth. Would you feel differently if I were not selling the stuff?
Well, that would eliminate "dishonest" from the accuastions, yes… Is that the main issue? Then here are a couple of other places to buy Kratom: www.IamShaman.com www.SageWisdom.org
Ah, so you provide the addresses of other scamsters instead. "If you don’t want to get ripped off by me selling you snake oil, I know some other snake oil salesmen who are just as good." Boy, *THAT* makes everything better. I truly am not trying to "scam" anyone.
Let’s see… you’re trying to sell people with a serious medical condition a possibly dangerous, possibly worthless ‘treatment’, but you’re not trying to "scam" anyone. Why doesn’t the logic in that sentence flow? For you and anyone else that is interested, do a search on "kratom" and/or "mitragyna speciosa". There are even articles in PubMed, although most (if not all) of those are in regards to Kratom’s narcotic-like effects (seen at higher doses.) In Thailand, people have consumed Kratom for centuries – they claim that it helps them to work harder. That evidence, although anecdotal, is at least well-documented.
Wow… it’s all worthless, but at least there’s a lot of it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Ah, so you only lie to and scam adults. *THAT* makes it all better! (Note: the latter sentence was sarcasm) No, I am simply saying that because there haven’t been any major studies as to the safety and efficacy of long-term Kratom use, it should only be taken by adults – who, presumably, are mature enough to decide for themselves.
I say again my last… "so you only lie to and scam adults" I am curious: are you unable to recognize how baseless your claims are? I haven’t made any "claims" that could be considered baseless. I have simply stated my own experiences. It DOES help ME.
You think it does. You have no reason to know it is making any changes in you that are beneficial. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scientifically, Kratom’s stimulant behavior at low doses is pretty well documented. Have there been any studies regarding its use for ADHD? No! And I clearly state that on my website! Because that would explain your lack of guilt; stupid people who don’t realize the damage they are doing have no reason to feel guilty. If you *are* able to recognize how baseless your claims are, however, you still haven’t answered the questions you’d "gladly" answer. I wish we could simply meet and talk, so that I could (attempt to) prove to you that I am neither stupid nor am I lying. But since that is unlikely, what else can I say? Let me ask you – are you "one of those" that are just vehemently against taking drugs for ADHD?
You may ask. It’s a pretty stupid question, but I’ll gladly let you ask. Or did I just happen to push your "he’s a scammer" button?
Scammers *DO* tend to do that. If it is the former, then there’s no point in discussing this any further – I’m sure you’re mind is already made up. If it is the latter – well, you’re mind is probably already made up about me, anyway. But I could probably prove to you that I am not a scammer – if that is your main concern.
You can’t prove to me that you’re not a scammer when you’re selling something that could be worthless or dangerous for a serious medical condition. And *DO NOT* try to bullshit me about it not being serious. See, I’m going to go visit someone in a few hours who is now "officially" dying – starting hospice care – partially because people made stupid claims about ADHD without having all the facts. But please don’t make the mistake of thinking that emotion plays a role in what I’m saying. Now, I won’t be able to respond further to this; my friend is 3000 miles away. Please consider your next volley of "but I’m only selling a worthless or potentially dangerous remedy for a serious medical condition, why do you call me a scammer for *THAT*?" to be thorougly called on its bullshit, okay? — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" I find it highly suspicious that you claim to have "attention problems" and yet your first post here is an advertisement for snake oil. Leaves one wondering why you didn’t think to look for this newsgroup until you had something to sell.
Well, actually, that’s not true. I have posted in this group a number of times in the past (including some comments about Strattera about a year ago.) I just simply prefer to keep the identities separate. But I really hate for people not to trust me, so if it would help you believe me, I’ll e-mail my other identity to you in private – if you wish. Good try though–at least you’re not claiming that it helped anybody but you.
Well, thanks for giving me that much, at least. Now, what side effects does it have? Has it been tested for safety by anybody? How does it taste?
On my website, I have tried to be as thorough as possible in relation to these questions. But, briefly: 1. As far as side-effects are concerned, the only negative one that I have encountered is…constipation. One big problem that I had with Ritalin is that I started to develop tics; or at least they seemed like tics. Like constantly rubbing my toes in my shoes to try and get the wrinkles out of my socks. And, worst of all, something I can only describe as "manual breathing" – usually to the beat of music that’s stuck in my head. Also, for some reason the Ritalin LA (long acting) was worse in this regard than the regular (fast acting" Ritalin. 2. Regarding safety – no, it has not been tested for safety or efficacy for this or any other medical purpose. It has been used in Thailand for a very long time, though. Personally, I started taking it off-and-on in January (admittedly, for recreational purposes at higher doses – but I don’t do that anymore. It was a substitute for alcohol for me.) I’ve been taking it every day – slowly sipping it to stay within the "stimulant" range while at work – since early March. 3. By itself, it tastes pretty bad, especially if its highly-concentrated. I put honey & cinnamon in it, and that helps. I’m used to it now, though. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
I find it highly suspicious that you claim to have "attention problems" and yet your first post here is an advertisement for snake oil. Leaves one wondering why you didn’t think to look for this newsgroup until you had something to sell. Good try though–at least you’re not claiming that it helped anybody but you. Now, what side effects does it have? Has it been tested for safety by anybody? How does it taste? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way.
…snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer…
Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above? I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern. Regards, Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Marriage is about love, and the creation of family, and should be open to all. Legislators who haven’t learned this valuable lesson should stick to fingerpainting, and only be allowed to use the plastic scissors.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.(worthlessgarbage).com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. …snip… I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… Eh? Guilt about what? Do one or more of the following apply to you: 1. Are you just against using any type of drugs to treat ADHD? 2. Are you specifically against using herbal supplements to treat ADHD? 3. Are you just upset that I included an advertisement in my post? 4. Do you think I’m lying about Kratom’s effectiveness for ADHD? 5. Or some other reason? 6. Or all of the above?
What do any of these questions have to do with anything? You’re dishonest, or a fool. You’re claiming to being able to help a serious medical condition without any meaningful evidence to be able to do so. You’re trying to make money off of this unproven remedy which either 1) does nothing (in which case it’s a complete scam) or 2) does something, but its effects and side effects have not been measured (in which case you’re still scamming folks, but you’re also using them as guinea pigs for an untested remedy) I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I am quite serious that Kratom has been very effective in treating my own attention problems. Yes, I may have a conflict of interest because I am selling the stuff, but please understand that I started using it for this purpose *first*, and _then_ decided to build a website and start selling it – *after* I discovered how useful it was. Not the other way around. Also, I made it clear in the subject line of my post, and also on my website, that Kratom should not be used by anyone under 18 – if that is your concern.
Ah, so you only lie to and scam adults. *THAT* makes it all better! (Note: the latter sentence was sarcasm) I am curious: are you unable to recognize how baseless your claims are? Because that would explain your lack of guilt; stupid people who don’t realize the damage they are doing have no reason to feel guilty. If you *are* able to recognize how baseless your claims are, however, you still haven’t answered the questions you’d "gladly" answer. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Marriage is about love, and the creation of family, and should be open to all. Legislators who haven’t learned this valuable lesson should stick to fingerpainting, and only be allowed to use the plastic scissors.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions!
How the FUCK do you sleep at night? Don’t you feel any guilt at all? Remember: you said you’d be glad to answer… — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Marriage is about love, and the creation of family, and should be open to all. Legislators who haven’t learned this valuable lesson should stick to fingerpainting, and only be allowed to use the plastic scissors.
Response:
Hi All, I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, and was given a prescription for Ritalin. Although Ritalin worked great at first, its effectiveness faded over time (even after increasing my dosage.) Now, skipping forward in time, I read about a plant known as "Kratom" (aka "Mitragyna Speciosa"). Kratom is interesting in that it produces a stimulant-type effect at lower doses, and a narcotic-like effect at higher doses. I orginally was interested in it for occassional recreational use, but then I noticed that, at low doses, it really helped me to concentrate and focus. So, I started taking a "water bottle" full of the stuff with me to work every day, and just slowly sip it throughout the day. Its effectiveness in helping my ADHD has been remarkable – my productivity is up, and moreover, I feel "happy" even while doing boring work. Okay, now here’s the sales pitch. Kratom has worked so well for me, I decided to create a website dedicated to it: www.mrkratom.com And yes, I’m selling Kratom as well. Currently, I’m running a "1/2 Price Grand Opening Sale", and my Kratom prices are the lowest anywhere, by the way. Anyway – If you are an adult with ADHD, you may want to look into Kratom. Even if you want to buy it from somewhere else. My main message is that Kratom has really helped my ADHD symptoms, and I truly believe that it has a lot of potential for this purpose. Also, note that Kratom is non-addictive (or at least not strongly so), despite its pleasurable qualities (especially at higher doses.) In fact, Kratom has been used to treat addiction to opiates (heroin, etc.) It appears to satisfy cravings for these drugs, without becoming addictive itself. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any questions! Mike, aka "Mr. Kratom"
Response:
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