Question:
I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up.
Unless he came back to you with a sexually transmitted disease, a child, or a crazed ex-girlfriend who’s threatening to kill you, what he did while you were broken up is none of your business. During that time, he had no commitment to you — by your choice. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it.
And what did you expect *him* to do? That’s a serious question. Real people, having been told that they aren’t loved and never will be, eventually stop scarfing down the Hagen-Daas and go on with life. If you expected him to do anything other than start dating other women, you were fooling yourself. Once you said you didn’t want him, he was a free agent and could entertain offers. If the purpose of these dramatics was to play out a grand reconciliation scene in which he reformed and demanded a commitment — well, he gave you six weeks to do change your mind and reconcile. You said no. You kept saying no. Eventually, if he respected you at all, he was going to assume that "no means no" and stop asking. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him.
Hmmmm… he even *gave* you your grand reconciliation scene, capitulated on all counts — and you still said no. At this point, he’d have to be fairly stupid to not get the point that YOU DON’T WANT HIM. If you’re going to keep telling a guy that you don’t want him, eventually, even if his head is as dense as a fence post, he will believe you. The ones who don’t believe it — well, they end up in jail under stalking laws. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least.
Where did you think he would be? Sitting home, waiting for the magical Sunday morning when you woke up and realized that you wanted to marry him after all? This is a real guy, not a character in a romance novel. Having been told to get lost, he got. And someone else found him, took him home, and fed him supper. If you want him to be faithful to you, you have to maintain a relationship with him. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together.
"Your news"? I’m puzzled by the notion that "we’re back together" is "your news." A relationship takes two people. As far as I can tell, he’d been trying to maintain a relationship with you, and you’d been breaking up with him and rejecting him. Maybe the guy’s tired of being jerked around. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted.
The first person dated after a big break-up is called the "transitional person," and they usually get emotionally worked-over big time. It’s a lousy position to be in. But it’s not surprising that he did bounce right into an intense relationship with someone he wasn’t serious about. It happens more often than not. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this.
It’s very simple, really. He wanted you back. He didn’t think he had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting you back. His ego was wrecked by your on-again, off-again behavior and his complete failure to get a "yes" from you. Another woman told him he was the most desirable creature on earth. Being one of the walking wounded, he accepted — probably pretty eagerly — her attempts to prove her point. Once you crooked a finger in his direction, he came running back for more punishment, leaving the Transitional Woman in emotional ruins. Moral: Never date someone whose significant other has just staged a grand renunciation scene. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us.
WAS he lying to her? He might have been perfectly open with her about how he was using her. He lied to you out of fear that you’d send him away AGAIN. Since you’re willing to dump him for not being faithful to a hopeless passion for your memory, I’d say his fears were justified. So he was in a no-win position. If he told you the truth, you’d dump him again for sleeping with her. If he lied and got caught, you’d dump him again for lying. What was he supposed to do? I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do!
Did he ever cheat on you while you were "on"? If not, he isn’t a cheater. He exercised his right to date other people once there was no longer a relationship between you. He had no way of knowing that a woman who refused to return his phone calls and ignored his broken-hearted pleas would ever change her mind. He went on with his life. If you want him to behave in a faithful, committed manner, you need to decide what you want and stick to it. You may see him as a secondary character in the grand novel of your life, but he’s the star of his own story. He’s not going to hang around for rejections and reconciliations forever; if you really want to marry him, you should sign up for that counseling NOW. Otherwise, cut bait! Wende
Response:
On the one hand he did lie — but he came to you on his own to correct that mistake. THAT is what is most important, here. Yes, he made a mistake in lying, but he realized that and corrected it. That wasn’t easy. Your life seems very high drama — and your decisions (or lack thereof) lead me to think that perhaps you LIKE this game. You say you’re miserable, but you seem to be happier when you’re miserable, otherwise you would not have left, came back, got cold feet again, then suddenly realized… If you love him, and he says he loves you, then forget the past, and take each other’s hands, look into each other’s eyes, and promise never to lie to one another again, ever, regardless of the situation. Then go forward. amy — Speaking only for myself.
Response:
[...] You are right there. I just feel like he should have stayed home and cried in his pillow. A little unfair of me, hah?
Which makes me wonder about what really motivates some of your decisions. Again, the tendency to high drama. YOU left, then expect him to pine for you, and when it apparently isn’t long enough or hard core enough, you want to think badly of him? it upsets me that he has the capacity to treat another person this way. That is what makes me wonder if maybe he isn’t the man I think he is. (When I told him that, he wept.) He comes from *very* screwed up parents, and I know he has issues with abandonment. He was negelcted and abandoned as a child, but he is an adult now and in control of his actions. I am a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, but it’s no excuse to act out as an adult. I am big on personal responsibility.
You’ve only got one side of the story. Did he "abandon" her or did she get all freaky and clingly when they were just dating around, causing him to end the relationship? You don’t know, and I think you’re making some mighty big jumps here. Again… you seem to love your drama. amy — Speaking only for myself.
Response:
Did he ever cheat on you when you were together? Or was it only after you left him? If the answer is no to question one and yes to question two then I don’t see the problem. After all it was you that dumped him. Similar thing happened to me when my wife left. After awhile she wanted to get back together so we did. That was 7 or more years ago. It seems that his insecurities were less than yours which made you make a bad decision. The worst part was that you didn’t even keep in touch for a long time. What the hell was he supposed to think? Then you call him up and he has a girlfriend. Why was that a surprise? Two or three months with nothing and any man is going to find someone. Did you really think that he wouldn’t sleep with her? It’s why men get girlfriends in the first place. Do you think that he is any less commited to you now? I wouldn’t think so, especially since he let you read that card knowing full well that it would be painful to you and believe me he was probably feeling guilt too at the time. Now, I’m not trying to make you feel guilty about this. The thing is that you need to remember how the whole mess started. He was having second thoughts and you ran with hardly a chance to work it out. If he is really as good a man as you said then you shouldn’t have any more troubles that require you or him to bail out. Let it be done and gone. Get back to your life together. Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I am very thankful for all of the advice I’ve received here. I knew there would be the "leave-as-soon-as-you-can-pack-your-stuff" responses, and to be honest that wasn’t an option I was ever going to take. If I were to find out that he was currently sleeping with someone else, well of course I would leave. I am working my way through the hurt- and as Bookgrrl said, the disappointment of finding out that my SO isn’t perfect. He is a fallible human being, that I know loves me more than anything in this world. Thinking back, it makes perfect sense to me that he would lie to me about the whole incident. I’m not excusing his dishonesty, but I am going to forgive him. I had walked out on him a few months back for not living up to my idea of what our engagement period was going to be. He *knew* that if he told me he slept with her, that I would not have gotten back together with him. And at the time he slept with her, he thought things were completely over between us. It may not have been the best way to get over a broken heart, but most of us have run to the arms of another even when those weren’t the arms we truly wanted to be in. In respect to his treatment of this woman, I am still not wild about it. From what he told me, she was more of the aggressor, and from the card it appears to be true. She also mentioned that she knew she was taking a big risk by getting involved with him at the time. There’s not much more to say about that. We are going to pursue counseling, but we are not going to put off the wedding. It’s next July. He is also going to see a therapist on his own, to work out some issues. He is a needy person, and that was part of the reason this all occurred. His neediness is not all-consuming however as some have mentioned. We had a very long talk about what Drew call the dealbreakers of our relationship. I said total honesty was one of them and my SO totally agreed. This one act doesn’t change the person he is. He made a *big* mistake by lying to me, but I know that he is still the same person I’ve been in love with for 8 years. He has flaws, I have flaws, but we are going to work together to get past this. But at the end of the day, he is still the kind, compassionate, caring wonderful man who cherishes me and whom I cherish as well. I think this experience will only strenghten our relationship. Thanks again for all the advice and words of encouragement! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
you are very young. Don’t do it. If it is meant to be it will happen eventually. Give your self some time apart from each other….some REAL time not just a couple of months. If you are meant for each other things will come together for you both at a later date. You DO NOT want to be planning a wedding with this doubt in your head. This is supposed to be an incredibly happy time! Good Luck
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Ahhhh, yes. The inevitable moment in every long-term relationship when we are suddenly confronted with the fact that the person we love is, well…human. Not perfect, not infallible, not pure, but human, with all of the attendant messiness, mistakes, foolishness, and regret. I really do not mean to be rude or confrontational, and so I’m asking you to please take what I am about to say in the spirit of gentle prodding in which it is intended. I’m thinking of you right now as though you were one of my good friends, sitting across from me and sharing some coffee. I’d say the exact same thing to her. Reading your post, I got the distinct impression that what you are mourning is not the occurrence of a lie, but rather the passing of an ideal. Here’s what I mean: you had, it sounds like, some sort of whirlwind courtship and a very romantic proposal. Then he got "cold feet," whatever that means. And so you left. Why? Ambivalence is part of the human condition. Why wasn’t he allowed to be unsure? Why wasn’t he allowed to doubt, and then to work through and answer those doubts in his own way? Why were you so insistent that he be absolutely, positively, 100% certain, so soon? Marriage is scary. It’s normal, reasonable, understandable that he would be ambivalent. Being ambivalent doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you, it simply means that he’s human. But I think that what you wanted was an infallible man who would never waver in his certainty — in other words, an ideal. Then, it seems, your guy went through the process we all go through as we face marriage, answered his doubts, worked through his ambivalence and anxieties, and recommitted himself to you. But you said, "Sorry, too late. You weren’t 100% sure about marriage when _I_ wanted you to be." So then he did something all too human. I’m willing to bet there’s few people out there who haven’t done something like this — made a mistake that wasn’t malicious, but rather born out of loneliness and a touch of bone-headedness. And now you’re once again faced with the fact that Mr. Perfect isn’t perfect after all, but is rather….just like you and me. Capable of screwing up (no pun intended). My question to you is, why do you need this man to be so utterly perfect and beyond reproach? Why can you not accept him as he is, with all of his imperfections and ambivalences? Why did you walk out on him the first time, the instant he got scared about the magnitude of marital committment? Why didn’t you hang around to work it through with him? And why aren’t you talking about how _he_ needs to learn to trust _you_ again, to trust that you won’t walk out on him the second he shows you anything less than his "good" side? Of course, in my response, I am taking you at your word, that he is a man of integrity who loves you (and not the kind of man who some of the other posters have described). But if your assessment of his feelings for you is correct, then I stand by what I said. And I’ve lived what I’m preaching. I’m a Jewish woman who began dating my Catholic boyfriend only on the condition that he would convert. Years and much torah study later, he dropped a bomb: didn’t know if he could do it after all. I was so distraught when he told me that I nearly vomited. After a lot of soul-searching, I realized that I had to be prepared to accept this man AS HE IS, or the marriage would never work. I couldn’t hypnotize myself with some load-of-crap fiction about how he was going to be Jewish, just like all the boys I grew up with. He didn’t grow up having Passover seders, his mother didn’t bake challah on Fridays, he and I have very different childhood memories and very different experiences of religion. But his conversion was between him and G-d, not between him and me, and I couldn’t make it a relationship issue. I was dating a real, flesh-and-blood person, who was going to be different in many ways from my ideal. I had to communicate to him that he was loved, profoundly and without hesitation, whatever path he chose, or I’d be compromising the integrity of my committment. As it turns out, he has eventually chosen to convert (a process he is going through now), but in a much more honest way than before, taking full stock of where he’s coming from and his own heritage. And the two of us are so much more wise and forgiving and accepting with one another, that our love truly feels spiritual to me. So….I’ve walked that walk too, sadgirl. Hang in there. Bookgrrrl
Response:
I really like the way you analogized marriage. I’m going to write that down. SheLion
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, my take: Think of marriage as the house you live in. It should be comfortable, the sort of style you like enough not to get bored with long-term, and most importantly, STABLE. With routine maintainence you ought to be able to go to bed at night knowing the roof will hold against the storms — family illness, deaths, unemployment, financial troubles — that are brewing outside. It doesn’t sound like you can commit to that sort of stability now, you keep changing your mind about this guy. And while the drama makes for good reading, I don’t think it makes for a very happy place to live. I’d call off the wedding. Good luck — Erin Strathmann I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Okay, my take: Think of marriage as the house you live in. It should be comfortable, the sort of style you like enough not to get bored with long-term, and most importantly, STABLE. With routine maintainence you ought to be able to go to bed at night knowing the roof will hold against the storms — family illness, deaths, unemployment, financial troubles — that are brewing outside. It doesn’t sound like you can commit to that sort of stability now, you keep changing your mind about this guy. And while the drama makes for good reading, I don’t think it makes for a very happy place to live. I’d call off the wedding. Good luck — Erin Strathmann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I completely agree with Gina. Go re-read her post. Now read it once again. I think she hits the nail on the head with every comment.
Response:
First of all you have to let your emotions work their way down from the anger. You say you are confused and sad, but I really see the anger most. You are mad that he could "betray" you. You are mad and resent that he could "lie" to you. And then underneath the anger is the hurt and the sadness. Let yourself get to the lower more base feeling–hurt. Mostly what you feel is hurt. That is ok, but now I’m going to say something that others may not agree with. He didn’t do anything wrong. Anyone who says they know "his type" of guy, has been in a bad relationship with a guy who this sounds like. But I don’t think that he is a type. I just think that certain people react in certain ways and making excuses for their behavior isn’t useful. It isn’t productive to ask why he did this TO you, what is more useful is why he did this period. I don’t believe that he did anything TO you, but you are reacting to things that he did during a time when you were not together. You were able to kiss someone else and he was able to try to go on with his life after you decided that you were going on with your life. You just don’t like the fact that he was able to go on with his. What you really wanted him to get out of your leaving was the fact that he just couldn’t live without you. And he did come to that realization, but not without continuing to live his life during your time apart. Yes he had sex with someone else. But that had nothing to do with you. Perhaps he wasn’t ready to have a relationship with someone else, but if the woman he slept with knew that at the time then she should not have gotten into bed with him and expected his feelings to change. I don’t think that he used her any more than she allowed herself to be used. They both were needy, and they had sex. That might not have been a great idea, but sometimes when we are needy we don’t think about anything except that need. You weren’t as needy because you had the upper hand in the situation. You were in control of both your own happiness and much of his. Even after he begged you to share his future you said no. So he started to see someone else. How dare he, right? You wanted him to become a monk in your absense? From what you wrote, he was startled by your sudden change of heart. He believed that things were over with you, not by what he felt in his heart, but because you would not commit to him again. The only thing for him to do was try to go on. But the moment you changed your mind he ended things with her. She gets hurt because she figured you would be the one he would get over, but things didn’t work out in her favor. Of course he didn’t tell you he slept with her. He rightly thought that you’d have a hard time dealing with it. He didn’t want to lose you again. He didn’t want you to think that he had doubts about being with you. So he lied to you. And the truth of the matter is that you really didn’t want to know. You wanted the lie to be the truth. There is one thing that you wrote that I want to repsond to directly: I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and
character.<< You talk about what type of man could he be if he could have treated another woman so badly and used her. But I don’t he meant to. I think that she got hurt by her own volition, getting too emotionally involved with a man whose heart belonged to someone else–you. He could have thrown away the letter, but he didn’t. He kept it. Possibly because he wanted you to know the truth. Possibly because he felt badly that he hurt her. But his heart was always yours. He is the only one who was betrayed by anyone. You lied about wanting a future with him to him. She lied to herself about what she could have with him. All in all, his lie seems the smallest. It seems a good idea to continue with counselling and try to keep the lines of communication open. Above all be honest with your feelings from now on. Regards, Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to
… read more »
Response:
I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me.
He’s not in love with you if he selpt with someone else and then lied to you about it. He’s just covereing his sorry butt. Dump him, get some professional help and get on with your life. Ron Ng Knows!
Response:
Wow – there’s so much to be said…. and,thankfully, most of it has been said already lol the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up.
Have you tried putting yourself in his place? You dumped him…. after quite some time, he got involved with someone else. *Then* you and he see each other again and rekindle your relationship…. Can you imagine his panic when the subject came up the first time around? I don’t condone the lie but I can understand the motivation. To paraphrase Ross in Friends (which has already been mentioned): "You were on a break". Do you believe that each of you is entitled to know part and parcel about your lives before you met? Because, in my opinion, this falls into the same category. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them.
If you had both agreed to take a temporary leave to think things through (or whatever), then this statement would have more impact I think. However, you were repeatedly emphatic with him that you felt the relationship was over. Aren’t you judging him by standards that you didn’t clearly outline? As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her.
A lot of thoughts have been expressed about his behaviour with this woman. I’m not going to jump into that too much except to say that it seems to me that he showed some maturity here by breaking it off with her. I don’t know that he used her (as has been suggested here)… they didn’t know each other long enough for her to have Great Expectations, to my mind. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him.
I’m still not clear on what there is to forgive other than the lie when you initially asked him? I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us.
I didn’t pick up on that from what you said……. in what way was he lying to both of you? but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do!
It would be a signal to me to postpone at the very least. Regardless of what he has done or not done, you need some time to adapt to the information you’ve received. If I were in your shoes, I would be examining my feelings a whole lot right now. First on my list would be: "Why do I want to pursue a relationship with him?" When you described seeing him again after your Nana died, you mentioned the physical reaction that you both felt. Was that a sexual reaction? Is this relationship leaning towards the physical? These are all questions I’d be asking myself……. I don’t mean that you should feel obliged to answer publicly or defend yourself in any way… I just put them out there to give you food for thought. Once I had assured myself that my motivations were where I wanted them to be, I’d be looking at the whole issue of "forgiveness". If I was to proceed in this relationship, I’d have to come to terms with what has gone on before. Can you truthfully say that you are able to walk down the aisle, say your vows and not want to push him down the church steps for hurting you? I hear a lot of hurt in what you’ve written. In another post, you mentioned that you had expectations that might be a little unfair. Well, be that as it may, you were hoping he was pining away without you (why wouldn’t he? he had in the past). It’s not wrong to wish for that… and it’s not wrong to be hurt when it turns out differently. But now you’re left with these feelings and questions. What would I do? Earlier, I said that I would postpone a marriage. I would use the time to learn how I felt… set reasonable expectations ….. and talk …… and talk ….and talk some more. It may help you a lot to talk to a third party to sort out your feelings. Invite your boyfriend along when you’ve had time to be comfortable with what you’ve learned for yourself. Best of Luck to you!
Response:
Make the time and get the counseling. Even if the insurance won’t cover it, pack lunches for a while or whatever sacrifice you and he have to make to afford it and get into counseling now. I didn’t see, but do you have a date yet? If so, hold up on all the planning until you’ve started the counseling. This is one of those things that you’ve got to work out now or it will come back up over and over and over. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I dated a guy like this once. I know the type, very *needy*. This drives me nuts!! I am a very independent person. Anyway. He probably slept with the other girl because he gets his self-worth from women. Look at his background before you. He probably never went more than a few months or maybe even weeks without a girlfriend. Trust me, the neediness only gets worse. Sounds to me like you are *comfortable* with him, and thus want to marry him. It sounds to me like you were doing just fine without him. Remember *An ex is an ex for a reason*
That’s a bit harsh. I’ve broken up with my FH twice, when we were going through a rough patch. So technically, he was my ex at two different points. And yet we’re together now, and quite happy, and if anything, I regret the fact that we broke up rather than pushing through the problems immediately, since all it did was delay having to deal with them. I think the original poster REALLY needs to talk to her SO about this, and tell him how she’s feeling, and find out why he did it. If she’s serious about this relationship, counselling is probably a really good idea, and she should make time for it, if she’s serious about the relationship. If they do end up sticking together, they’ll probably learn good communication skills that will be helpful in the rest of their relationship. -Kris
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. Makes sense he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. No offense, but when you seek advice, providing all the necessary info is fairly important. Once he came around and was no longer hesitant about getting married, why were you resistant?
I guess because I didn’t want to bully him into marrying me. He had this wildly romantic proposal, followed by cold feet. I made a decision that I was going to leave. He knew I was thinking of leaving, but he didn’t come around until i told him it was over. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. But is this lie too big to forgive? First, let’s look at the behavior he lied about. Was sleeping with this other woman wrong? No. As they say in "Friends", you were on a "break". YOU were the one that refused to commit to him when he wanted you back. What was he supposed to do, see you exclusively? I think not. So, the underlying activity was excusable. Second, let’s look at the lie. You say that you knew all along that he had slept with her, so you knew he was lying. So, the lie did not hide info from you.
I know it seems silly. I *knew* he slept with her. But for some reason when he finally admitted it, I went a little crazy. Was his lie understandable? [Did you tell him that you kissed various guys?] He did nothing wrong, yet perceived that telling you the truth about his dalliance would hurt you. The lie is fairly minor, just to avoid a pointless fit of jealousy on your part. As you indicate ("I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge."), you were upset that he had *dated* anybody, let alone had sex.
I did tell him about everything I had done while we were apart. He still will occasionally joke about why I didn’t go after the guy with the money, but doesn’t seem too upset about it. Thank you for the advice, I am feeling better already. — JF Please reply by post. I do not check this email account for messages. http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! Servers ==—–
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I dated a guy like this once. I know the type, very *needy*. This drives me nuts!! I am a very independent person. Anyway. He probably slept with the other girl because he gets his self-worth from women. Look at his background before you. He probably never went more than a few months or maybe even weeks without a girlfriend. Trust me, the neediness only gets worse. Sounds to me like you are *comfortable* with him, and thus want to marry him. It sounds to me like you were doing just fine without him. Remember *An ex is an ex for a reason* Heather
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I understand that you are upset about what you perceive to be his infidelity, but I don’t see that he really did anything terribly wrong.
It’d be one thing if they hadn’t been dating, period. But he was pursuing her while sleeping with another woman. It’s almost as bad as sleeping with the other woman while dating her. It’s like him saying,"Honey, I love you and want to be with you… but I’ve got this other honey on the side to keep me company in the meantime, and just in case you say no." And yes, there’s also the question of if she wants to marry a guy who could hurt and use another woman like that. Personally, I’d call off the wedding. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married.
Makes sense he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him.
No offense, but when you seek advice, providing all the necessary info is fairly important. Once he came around and was no longer hesitant about getting married, why were you resistant? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. But is this lie too big to forgive?
First, let’s look at the behavior he lied about. Was sleeping with this other woman wrong? No. As they say in "Friends", you were on a "break". YOU were the one that refused to commit to him when he wanted you back. What was he supposed to do, see you exclusively? I think not. So, the underlying activity was excusable. Second, let’s look at the lie. You say that you knew all along that he had slept with her, so you knew he was lying. So, the lie did not hide info from you. Was his lie understandable? [Did you tell him that you kissed various guys?] He did nothing wrong, yet perceived that telling you the truth about his dalliance would hurt you. The lie is fairly minor, just to avoid a pointless fit of jealousy on your part. As you indicate ("I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge."), you were upset that he had *dated* anybody, let alone had sex. — JF Please reply by post. I do not check this email account for messages. http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
Response:
(Lots of stuff snipped about an on and off relationship, with him
sleeping around during the "off" times.) You are having a major problem here between reality and fantasy. This guy is what he is, NOT what you want him to be. He will always be what he is, and your wants are just a fantasy that will never be real. Wanting him to be faithful isn’t enough. He has proven that altho on some level he loves you, he doesn’t love you enough to be faithful. What makes you think things will change??? My advice is to RUN just as fast and as far as you can, and get counselling to get over this guy, or you’ll spend a lot of your life a lot sadder than you are now. gloria p
Response:
He has proven that altho on some level he loves you, he doesn’t love you enough to be faithful.
I have to disagree here. She told him it was over, they were apart, and he was moving on with his life. Was he supposed to wait around forever? They weren’t together at the time. It isn’t as though he was out with other women while they were.
Response:
I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! What ever happened to counseling? That’s something he suggested and wanted, are you going? I understand that you are upset about what you perceive to be his infidelity, but I don’t see that he really did anything terribly wrong.
You are right there. I just feel like he should have stayed home and cried in his pillow. A little unfair of me, hah? You weren’t dating when he was with this other woman, and when you got back together, he broke it off. If anything, the other woman has the most right to be upset becuase he was using
her. it upsets me that he has the capacity to treat another person this way. That is what makes me wonder if maybe he isn’t the man I think he is. (When I told him that, he wept.) He comes from *very* screwed up parents, and I know he has issues with abandonment. He was negelcted and abandoned as a child, but he is an adult now and in control of his actions. I am a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, but it’s no excuse to act out as an adult. I am big on personal responsibility. I think that is the biggest issue. Does he have a problem being without someone else? These are all things I can’t make a judgement on because I’m not there. Love is not the only determinate in a relationship. And it certainly shouldn’t be the only reason 2 people get married. If you really love each other, you will seek counseling before you get married. Jennifer
we did attend a couple of sessions, then I switched jobs and insurance and you know how life gets busy, and it was something that got shoved to the back burner. There is more than love between us, but there is a big fracture in the trust portion and I know we need to rebuild that. he is a wonderful man, and I think he was at a very low point, and did some inappropriate things. I don’t want to leave him, but I would leave if it was the best thing to do. i think going back to counseling is very important. I want to rebuild the trust. I know I am going to have a difficult time forgiving and forgetting about him sleeping with someone else, but if I want us to work I have to. I guess I have this fairytale image of how my life is supposed to be, and boy does it suck when it doesn’t work out that way! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do!
What ever happened to counseling? That’s something he suggested and wanted, are you going? I understand that you are upset about what you perceive to be his infidelity, but I don’t see that he really did anything terribly wrong. You weren’t dating when he was with this other woman, and when you got back together, he broke it off. If anything, the other woman has the most right to be upset becuase he was using her. I think that is the biggest issue. Does he have a problem being without someone else? These are all things I can’t make a judgement on because I’m not there. Love is not the only determinate in a relationship. And it certainly shouldn’t be the only reason 2 people get married. If you really love each other, you will seek counseling before you get married. Jennifer Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I am so confused and sad right now. Where to begin? we’ve been dating for 8 years, with a 6 month break up in college and a 4 month break up last year. I’m 24, he’s 29. I am so in love with him, and I know he is deeply in love with me. He is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, everything I could ever hope to have in a husband, so what’s the problem? The problem is that he lied to me about sleeping with this woman last year when we were broken up. I left him last year when it seemed he was wavering about getting married. I said if you are having ANY mixed emotions, than I can not go through with a marriage. I told him in June, and moved out at the end of July. During that 6 week period, he *begged* me not to leave. He said he loved me so much and that I was everything to him. I had decided that it wasn’t about an ultimatum. He had some reservations, and I wasn’t going to manipulate him into marrying me. It had to be the absolute hardest thing I could have ever done, but I did it. I felt good about myself, and started to put my life back together. he kept calliing me for a few weeks, and I wouldn’t see him and I didn’t return his calls, I thought I was going to move on. Then at the end of Septemeber my Nana died. We were so incredibly close, it was extremely painful for me. So I called him, but I didn’t leave a message. Well, ain’t technology just grand, since he had caller ID and saw that I had called. He called all around creation trying to find me, he had a hunch that it was Nana. When I walked into my mother’s house, she was on the phone with him and she had asked him to be pallbearer. (My whole family loves him to bits.) We talked for a little bit, and I knew I was going to see him at the wake 2 nights later. He walks into the wake and I see him, and we both had physical reactions. I knew that there was no other person who i wanted to be with. He said it felt like a jolt of electricity when he saw me, and I felt something similar. We talked a bunch that night, and he again told me how much he loved me, and would be there for me if I needed anything, even if it was just a friend to cry to. Over the next couple of weeks, I saw him a couple of times and we had sex. He started pressing for a commitment, but I was reluctant because I had left him for a reason. he finally said that he couldn’t go on seeing me unless we were going to be committed to one another and in counseling, heading towards marriage. I didn’t feel as though I could give that to him. Then one Sunday morning I woke up and realized that I was being stubborn and silly- I love this guy so much, I do just want to be with him. I drove up to his house and he wasn’t home. I was so happy, thinking about how happy he was going be, and what a celebration it would be for us to be back together. Well, he wasn’t home. I went to my brother’s and left a message for him to call me there. No call comes. Finally I go home, and at 10 that night he calls. he had been out all day, with another woman. I was devastated, to say the least. During our time apart, I had met a lot of men. I went on a couple of dates, but did nothing more that kiss them. It just didn’t feel right, at all. And not to brag, but I was meeting lots of great men. I met a handsome and fun millionare who was so into me that he sent me roses everyday at work for a week straight. But I broke it off, explaining to him I just wasn’t ready to give what he wanted. While we were on the phone that night(after I drove up to tell him my happy news) I told him I wanted to see him. When we met for dinner the next night, I told him my news, and he wasn’t as happy as I thought he’d be. He didn’t understand why all of a sudden I’d changed my mind, but we ended up working it through and getting back together. We had gotten back together and were rebuilding our relationship. I asked about the other woman, and he said that he had started seeing her in September, and that they didn’t have sex. I was upset that he could do that, but then again I had dated, so who was I to judge. As soon as we had decided to get back together, he broke things off with her. Well, he moved in last week, and he was unpacking a box Friday night. I just happened to be standing there, and he pulled out a pile of stuff, one thing being a card still in the envelope, with just his name on the front. He quickly put it on the bottom of the pile, but for some reason I grabbed it. He watched me as I looked at it. At first there were a bunch of pictures of wildlife and I asked where it was. He told me, and those were pictures he had taken the day I drove up to tell him what I thought was great news. Then I came to the card. She talks about how he broke her heart, how she knew that he could never give as much as she could, and that he had used her emotionally. She said for the last month she had been crying and praying that he would come back to her. He had tried to grab the card out of my hand, but didn’t make much of an attempt, since he knew he was busted. All along I had thought that he had slept with her. I knew he had spent the night there, and I am not stupid. And I know men tend to be different about women when it comes to sex. But when he denied it, it was ok with me. The next morning he admitted to me that he slept with her. He had dated her for 2 months, and during that time he was telling me he wanted me back. I am having a hard time making sense of this. I *want* to marry him more than anything, but there is this part of me that doesn’t know if I can forgive him. I mean, there was one point where he was lying to both of us, and sleeping with both of us. I know he loves me, there is no doubt that he wants to marry me. But is this lie too big to forgive? I have always thought he was this great guy, with lots of integrity and character. I know good people do bad things, but is this some sign that I should call things off? I don’t want to, but I don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage either. I am so miserable right now, I don’t know what to do! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
((((( I’m so ashamed… I daren’t face bread ever again… We might need relationship counselling. 
Categories: Relationship Counselling | 
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Although who the buggery would I seek to publish my tedious tales of Campath doom if I did that? Bummer… Rgds David Complain all you want, it’s a good place to do it. Not least because "Paul Jones" <jones.p…@btconnect.com
. Within the straight community, Bob Dole has probably been of tremendous service for making it OK for men to admit/seek treatment for their ED. Within the gay community, we have poster boys for HIV/AIDS but I’ve not seen any schmozy gay couple ad for Viagra. Just my experience(s)… OR eon If you can get a copy, there was an article in last month’s "Out" magazine on gay men and Viagra. It was very informative. Judy "Never keep up with the Joneses; drag them down to your level. It’s cheaper." –Quentin Crisp– —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– 
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